Layout Plan Opinions

Group,

Just started planning my layout. The room is 24x31 I made up a plan in RTS Freeware from Atlas. Here is a bitmap image of the layout. What do you think?

Sam

For the yard on the left, I would make it a parallelogram(?) in shape. So I would change the bottom ladder so the main exits on the right and the ladder goes up and to the left, and pull it down or stretch it as much as you can toward the bottom. That way all of your yard tracks would be about the same length.

It also looks like there might be an access problem in the roundhouse area and the two yards(?) there. (actually the space between them) Looks like it is quite a reach there even though there is access on both sides

For more comments, you may want to post some of the switching areas by themselves so they can be seen better.

That is my kind of layout, but it won’t find favour with many who might answer you. It would be characterized as a railfanning type of layout with little operational value other than your passing siding on the right and the yard, plus the service area. Unless I am misreading it entirely. But I like it.

The only thing not clear to me is accessibility; how will you get from place to place…ducking and scooting between bench components? Also, it appears to me that your aisles are a bit thin.

PT1M:

Big layouts aren’t really my specialty. I’ll try and look again later. In the meantime, I just want to make some general comments.

It’s pretty ambitious. If you’ve built layouts before, and feel confident, that might not be a problem.

I like the restraint you’ve shown with yards. You can always add more track, but keeping them small at the start makes it less likely to bog you down in construction.

You may want to leave out the turntable. Turntables can be troublesome, and when combined with lots of tracks and roundhouses, they take up a LOT of space that you could do other fun things with. Since you already have a wye (the TT is on one leg of it), just turn the locos on that, and have a narrower engine terminal with an engine house. There’s no length restriction on locos, then; you can turn a T1 or lease some Challengers. Wye-turning is just as prototypical as a turntable, and wyes are made of nicely pre-engineered track sections, and can serve multiple purposes.

Finally, as I said, it is ambitious. What I sometimes like to see in a very ambitious plan is a section that can be completed early and used for fun train running and operation to stave off burnout.

First - Where is the entrance door, and does it swing into the space?

Without looking at the track plan (about which I cannot comment without a detailed knowledge of your prototype and intended operations) the aisles caught my eye instantly. Unless you have staircase access the duckunder aspect will get old quickly - as in right now if you are (or ever become) an arthritic old coot with very limited flexibility.

Since you have the space, your planning should begin with the 1:1 scale people. Short reaches and no duckunders will make (Great) Granpaw a happy camper, and aren’t that restrictive to track planning. Designing that way also makes executing the design a lot easier.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with walk-in aisleways in a double garage)

As mentioned, access to the turntable and the duck under thing are going to be a problem. I really wish I would have listened and NOT built a duck under…[D)]

The entrance will be on the lower left with a lift out or a drop portion of the layout. I plan on having several more sidings for other industries. Yes I am concerned about the reach for the turntable area bit I gotta have it. I am modeling a place called Lawrence Junction that is near New Castle PA my grandfather worked in that yard/ roundhouse. It wa a PRR line and there is numerous other possibilities to interchange with the NYC and the P&LE. This is my first draft of the layout so I wanted to get some input before I start building. I am plannning on having the layout height pretty high to keep things more at eye level.

Sam

Well, then, you see to have a great deal of your druthers and necessary thinking and planning figured out. It is an ambitious project, but it is doable. You would be wise, if you don’t mind a suggestion, to block it out into at least two parts, perhaps four would be better, and do one part of it at a time. Get one wall up and running, learn and make some errors and adjustments, refine your techniques, and then use the benefits on your subsequent “modules”. This way, you get to play before too long has passed, and you can pause and take a breather before tackling the next sections. I know from experience that it can become a real grind about the time you are making all the topography so that it gets fleshed out. It can take forever…or seem that long.

I would have to say you have oriented tha layout towards running trains as opposed to prototypical operation or switching.

You will regret having two separated aisles.

The staging yard (assuming that is what is its on the left) needs to have its shape changed or neds to be flipped so the ladders break away from the aisle and then move the ladders to exit the curves on either end.

The yard near the turntable isn’t really usefull. the tracks are too short, there isn’t a run around and no switching lead.

The turntable feeding off two sides of the loop isn’t very prototypical. Its also in the middle of the widest benchwork which means access will be a bear.

Without anymore information, I can’t really see a clarity of purpose or operation (then again having a colored background and the fine grid make it difficult to see details of the plan.)

If you are wanting to just run trains then i suggest a couple true double track loops that share a staging yard. Go with DCC and you can hands free orbit numerous long trains. If you were planning prototypical operations you need to define where and what you want to do because its not clear and doesn’t look like it will do it.

I suggest developing a list of “givens and druthers”, that is a list of the things you want, the locale the minimum radius, the standard radius, switch sizes, era, etc.etc. and use that list to design off of.

Dave H.

I suggest you build a much less ambitious layout. You will likely save a lot of money and grief if you do. After you’ve gained additional knowledge about railroads, layout design, and experience in layout contruction and operations, you will be in a better position to conceive and build a satisfying layout occupying your large space. Most of us mortals need to construct at least a couple or more “learning” layouts before reaching a level of basic competence.

Mark

Yea, I totally didn’t see the two separate isle ways. Bad idea.

I know the last thing that you want to hear is - start over. However, let me offer a couple of suggestions.

The bench work should be 18 to 24 inches wide so that you can reach everything comfortably. Make the bench work in the shape of an ‘E’ with the openings facing down. Design the mainline in the form of a dog bone. Use a two track mainline with a single track return loop at each end (you could also double track it and use crossovers) of the ‘E’ (left and right) On these return-loop ends, the bench work will have to be wider, and you might have to provide a center access from underneath. The center leg of the ‘E’ can be a peninsula four feet wide with a scenery divider down the center starting at the upper wall and coming about half way down. On the end of the center peninsula, put the turntable and roundhouse. That way you have a lot of room for it but have the access that you need too.

Start with this basic shape and then work in your main yard, other towns, and industries. This way you have a layout that you can walk in and out of with out any duck-unders, so you can follow a train around the entire mainline. You also have the room that you need for the large engine facilities, plus you get it out in the open where visitors will see it better.

Maybe you could do something similar to what I did:

The layout I’m working on has a double track main with about as long a run as I could fit in the available space (videos in my signature), no duckunders,grades, and staging for four 30 car trains. I s’pose you could call this a railfan’s layout, as it’s good for watching trains run, but not much in the way of operation, except for engine swaps on the main near the engine terminal. All parts of the layout are within easy reach(except for the part along the east wall just behind the turntable0. Since you have more room than I do, you could probably do better than I did.

first thing i do when looking at a track plan is start in a yard and follow around where a train would go . your layout gives you all kinds of ways to get from a yard back to the same yard which is something that you won’t see often in a real railroad , mostly there’s just one way to get from one place to another . i know most of us make it possible to run a train around the layout and come back to where you started but i think one should attempt to make the layout look like point to point like the real thing . unless your thing is to run trains around in circles .

try drawing your plan out as a straight line as if it was on a map , you’ll see the connections you have either don’t make sense or wouldn’t be possible .

ernie

I assume you are using at least two duckunders here. I would suggest that you try to eliminate them if at all possible because they tend to be inconvenient for those who have trouble crawling under them. You might better off making those into two peninsulas bridged by removable bridges.

Irv

Sam,

IMO there are SIX MAJOR problems with your trackplan:

  1. duckunder #1

  2. duckunder #2

  3. aisle 1 physically seperated from aisle 2.

  4. aisle 2 physically seperated from aisle 1.

  5. very poor/difficult turntable and roundhouse access…just asking for frustration.

  6. aisles too narrow…

you can do SO much better with your space! :slight_smile:

sorry…but IMO thats just not a good plan at all…far too many unnecessary problems, you could eliminate ALL of those problems and have a layout you really enjoy, rather than a layout you end up hating…

keep aisles to 3-feet wide, and sections of layout to 2-feet deep, peninsulas can be 4-feet wide if there is access from 2 or 3 sides, (so every point on the layout is 2-feet or less from an edge)…your turntable/roundhouse area could fit on a peninusla exactly as you have it…but you want access on 3 sides of the peninsula…that could be the “main feature” of the layout, and stick out into the room from the edges…

Scot

PICKY! PICKY! PICKY!

Sam, I see several potential disasters in your layout plan. I presume that your are shoving a 24 X 31 layout into a 24 X 31 room and therefore–except where there is a door and I am sure there is one somewhere–this layout is going to fit flush against all walls. Your grid measures to 3 inches and this configures a 36 inch minimum shelf width.

UNLESS YOUR NAME IS SHAQ OR YAO THAT’S AN AWFUL LONG WAY TO REACH!

A considerable amount of your trackage runs within a foot or so of those room walls and at several locations along this perimeter track you have switchwork; switch=grief! You need to narrow up these outerperimeter shelves to an accessible 24 inches; this will be done by changing the parameters of those inside operating locations increasing the inside platforms by 24 inches which will give you benefits of scenery and structures.

You have one other problem; necessity mandates a duckunder just getting into the layout and I don’t care how you cut it a certain amount of ducking is going to be required between those two inside operating pits and sooner or later you are going to begin booting yourself in the rearend for that second pit. I will gee-go-guarantee you that you will never design a layout with two duckunders again.

I suspect you are designing a Horribly Oversized layout; I know people would kill for a 24 X 31 layout space. Your room has outstanding potential for a walk-in layout and my advice would be to go back to the drawing board and design such.

A compliment: even as flawed as your design might be you have at least avoided cramming, a noticable shortcoming on many first layouts.

You have a nice big layout room. You may not like this, but I think the proposed benchwork will make the room feel cramped and awkward for human navigation. I would suggest reducing the benchwork surface area by 30 - 40 percent and, as others have said, avoiding duckunders.

Oh to have that much room. Looks to be the kind of layout I can only dream about. Lots of time watching the trains run. I would agree with some of the comments however as to how far you have to reach, etc. Also I would find a way to avoid duckunders. Great if you’re young, not so great when you get up there in years. Good luck. I’d like to see some pictures of construction, etc. when you get to work on it.

Dave in Maine

The one dimension we haven’t discussed is vertical - how high is the ceiling?

Reason I ask is, have you ever considered trying the mushroom idea. Not only does it allow comfortable aisleways and short reaches, but, by stacking sceniced layers and accessing them from different sides, there is far more surface available for trackwork and the rest of the visible world. Just Google Model Railroad Mushrooms and a whole new realm of possibilities will open up.

Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

I strongly suggest you get a copy of John Armstrong’s book Track Planning for Realistic Operation and read it before building. While this layout appears to offer some fun operation with numerous routes, I think you’ll find that the frustrations will quickly outweigh the fun. If you only ever read one book on model railroading, this is the book.

Enjoy

Paul