hi brett
in the “good” old days, we designed by squares; a John Armstrong invention.
The length of a square is the minimum radius plus 5 inches in HO. No chance on cheating; after some time you can draw a layout on the back of an envelope.
Still do it a lot this way, it’s fast and accurate.
Paul
BTW. the track parallel to the yard stem is to short to hold any car. This track is often added, eg. for parking cabooses, just copying it is not good enough, it need a adequate length to function well.
Well mine is only 6.5 x 9.5
It is 54 ’ high and I am 74 and have no problems ducking under
Simple double oval 22 and 24 with a service yard
All my staging is in a cabinet under the front
I can change out both engines and cars in about 10 minutes manually
Still needs the clouds painted etc and ballast and ground cover but is finished enough that I can watch them go roundy round
HI UncBob,
I like that you’ve keep yours nice and simple, and are using my desired radius curves I see you use some steam and shorter rolling stock. Thanks for the feedback on the 54inch duck under, as this may be a possibility for me.
Paul,
I’ve grabbed out 102 track plans recently and visited an article on design by squares, so I have adjusted the grid on which I work to represent that philosophy.
Cheers and thanks,
Brett
Okay, and we’re back to the weekend, when I can really make some impact here.
Looking at the v1.0 of the trackplan, and I’ve come up with a few changes to make when considering things like:
Firstly, I am going to try to do the following:
While you are considering this, I’ll be reshaping the layout diagram so that my above drivel is more understandable.
Cheers n thanks
Brett
okay the latest version of the track plan is:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56401358@N06/5230136789/in/photostream/
I’ve kept staging hidden on the 0 elevation, along with the yard and freight house/yard. The main line loops up through a tunnel then hidden up the east side, to arrive at the branch to head to the coal mine. I have continued to head ‘up’ to the coal mine.
I’m looking for operation critique of the coal mine area, and imagine that there will need to be a run-around track and a maybe some more storage up there. The last 48 inches of the coal mine scene is on an area of about 12 inches x 48 inches and completely flat.
cheers and thanks,
Brett
The “freight yard” appears to be simply a pair of team tracks. By running a long spur to that location, you are giving up an additional classification track. Either have the “freight yard” be a team track integrated into the classification yard, or have it accessed by a short spur off the main and gain the additional classification track.
Dante
Looks like about a 2.5-3 percent grade there? Have you tested the equipment you plan to run to verify it can do such a grade? I’m basing this on about 12 feet of track from the point where the main crosses over the junction that leads to the hidden staging and the opposite side of the layotu just before the turnout to the freight yard. To get the required 4-4.5" of clearance for HO plus the thickness of a reasonable bridge, that’s between 2.7 and 3% grade over that distance.
–Randy
Hi Randy,
The steeper of the 2 climbs/descents comes in at 2.8%, giving allowance for 4 inches of elevation. I was struggling to keep it below this, and in reality this does represent a concern.
Incidentally, last night I found 6 new Walthers Coal Hoppers on my doorstep (thanks ebay and a great exchange rate - I live in Oz). When I grabbed one out, I was amazed at just how ‘heavy’ it was, which brings concern for the 2.8% grade.
I do have an 8 foot stretch with a 4% grade, which make my favourit RS-11 struggle with 10 freight cars. It does need to have some momentum at the bottom to make this grade, and running at a more prototypical speed is almost a non-event. I guess the next step is to lay a 25 foot run out to measure what would be an acceptable grade given the rolling stock.
My guess it’s not quite as simple as weight one item of rolling stock, the ‘loading up’ a small consist of the anticipated weight (no. of cars X weight of cards) made up of 3 or 4 hoppers filled with lead weight . . . as this would not represent the rolling frictions of the consist properly.
And all this just to keep that yard, lol!
cheers,
Brett
HI Dante,
Thanks for this input. I was sort of trying to keep away from the main for the traffic from the yard to the frieght house/yard. This has used one of the yard tracks, and I am seeing issues with this too. Of course, I may be able to use the A/D track if that’s not going to overly offend the prototypical use of the A/D track.
Cheers n thanks,
Brett
And the next iteration is this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/56401358@N06/5231444056/in/photostream/
I have changed the entry/exit from the a/d tracks serves to both extend the double loop mainline (now about 56feet) and reduce the grade on the main back to about 2.4% on the steeper climb.
All motive power should be good for this grade with the appropriate rolling stock.
I have also changed the hidden staging a little too, so the storage tracks are slightly longer and the throat points in the appropriate direction.
The big question I have is . . . Am I still kidding myself by keeping the classification yard on the layout, and will this bring me operational capacity, or would I be better off replacing it with something else?
Your comments are appreciated!
Cheers,
Brett
hi brett
one comment, i think the drill track is pretty short; you might make the connection between staging and your station a bit further down.
I did not check the grades, your design is pretty good.
paul
Seems like you are building a layout just for four cars in the “freight yard” (whatever that is) and six cars at the mine.
Don’t think theres enough going on for this size layout. Sorry, just telling you what I see.
Looks good.
You might want to sneak in a runaround somewhere on the mine branch. Also, I would move the power station turnout farther along the runaround to the right. You’ll be able to park more cars before the switch and therefore might avoid having to back the train to the left before you shove the cars to the power station.
Yes, the yard looks like it might be a tight fit. You’ll probably have to use a lot of retaining walls, but that’s been done for years.
Hmmm - you have (in version 1.5 of your plan) two coal based industries (a coal mine and a power plant), plus a small model railroad-like yard with a couple of engine service tracks, an A/D track and three or four short classification tracks.
You have put quite a bit of work into making the twice-around main climb up and drop down again, but you are not going to get all that interesting (IMO - other people’s opinions may differ) switching the way you have set things up.
Start by looking at the mine run. You will have have to run your engine around the empties at the yard (or your engine will get trapped at the mine), and then push the cars a full circle counter-clockwise around the room, into the branch and then down the last wall up to the mine.
When you get to the mine, you have two short tracks (about 2 feet, room for maybe 4-5 coal hoppers) there.
If both tracks at the mine has loaded cars, and the total number of loaded cars are more than what fits into a single track, you are stuck. No work space - i.e. a somewhere to place cars temporarily while picking up or setting out cars.
So you will not be able to take trains of 8-10 empty coal hoppers up to the mine with the plan of exchanging them for 8-10 loaded hoppers.
You either will have to go up there engine light, grab all the empties and bring them down, running all around the room again to get to the yard, and then grab loads from the yard and push the loads all around the room up to the mine again. 90+% of your time switching the mine will not be spent doing switching - it will be spent on watching your mine run slowly lo
Stein & Alco_Fan,
cheers and thanks for your input. First, this is critical input, and I appreciate everyone’s input. I’m not going to be easily offended, and really only want to build this thing one more time!!! I’ll be taking all the feedback I can get, and using it appropriately. Having had the day to consider a few other things, and having read Alco_fan’s post earlier in the day . . I am starting to see that while I may have achieved my goal of a ‘twice round’ loop in 8x9, I’m still missing some fundamentals of operations.
In the main part, I know I have some room to play with at the mine site, and could possibly make this area bigger, which would enable me to have far longer storage tracks for empties/loads, incorporate a run around for the loco etc, and maybe even justify buying that nice little switcher just to leave at the end of that branch. By my reckoning, I could possible have an area some 60x15 inches to play with up there. On a quick count, the 6 xWalthers Coal Hoppers = 60inches, so I’d probably need another 24 inches on that to make an effective run around track, giving me 84 inches to drop the consist and then ‘run around’ the consist to start placing them with the same Loco. I’ll have a good close look at this and then take on your idea of a curved yard.
** I have not placed a curved yard in the equation yet, as I am fearful of my ability to hook/unhook without using a pencil etc to do this **
If I look at my current inventory of motive power and rolling stock, I see half the rolling stock fleet as coal hoppers (11) and the balance as mixed freight cars (TOFC, tanks, gondolas, boxcars - 11). Motive power is currently 2 x 4 axle diesels and 3 x 6 axle diesels. I really need something more than railfanning for the mixed freight rolling stock.
Now, one of the things I have been thinking is:
Why have the removable lift out? UncBob already pointed out that h
In a way of clarification
My Duckunder is 42 " wide and because of the fascia 50" high
However as you can see my staging area (cabinet) takes up a lot of that width
I can still duck under no problem but if I intend to do extensive in and outs I move the cabinet out of the way
At 74 I have no problem but probably am more agile than most my age as I do workout ( Jog Bike Weights ) 7 days a week
Brett,
realise very well the HOG is flat. If your doing a twice around with grades you will hardly have any flat stretches. This is needed for switching… not only the spur has to be flat also the adjacent (parallel) piece of track on the mainline.
As is being said many times on here before, start with a drawing of your room; with all obstacles drawn in. See the space first, not the proposed layout.
Paul
Hi Paul,
Having had a look at HOGRR quite a bit since it was first mentioned, I am trying to develop a feel for whether it can be broken in 2, having one stretch (say southern & western side) on level +4 inches and the other stretch (say eastern & northern side) at level 0. Their would need to be a grade of some description in there, but the siding layouts havea tried and tested operation ability (from what I have read). Even if I just borrow part of that plan to lay over my own, it’s adding to the operations.
As for the space, I’m very much seeing and empty room ot 10*10, but I need to stay off the walls of it. This, even though I have said ‘round the walls’ is very much a free standing item, which is to be operated from inside the well. The room layout will give me 2 feet of viewing from the front, and I may be able to justify running out to 9ft 6in at a pinch. There is nothing else in the room, apart from some built in cupboards lining the perimeter on the southern 9 foot side. I’ll include the room in the next revision of the plan.
I have considered a folded dogbone, to give the illusion of a double main line, with the blobs stacked on one another. This would take a minimum of 4ft 6in x 4ft 6in in one of the corners, and if done right, could lend itself to a small helix to give me a double deck layout . . . but when is enough too much?
To do a helix in this area, assuming a 4in rail to rail height, I would end up with a grade of 2.9% by my calculation. I’m not sure if this would work, or is even feasible. While I know I have enough head end power to d
Hi UncBob,
The photo is a great example of a ‘clear’ duck under, and right now, I thank you for helping to change my mnd on the duck under position.
thanks,
Brett
So - what does “stay off the walls” mean in this context? Not fastening things to west, north and east walls?
Or something else? Is there any reason to leave a gap of 1 foot between the layout and the wall? A one foot wide aisle isn’t really all that usable for most purposes.
Smile,
Stein