Getting ready to buy the plywood, for the layout, new to this. Should I buy plywood that is smooth or not smooth. Will it be important or not. Thanks for the answers. David
Its best not to scrimp on your woodwork. Buy the CDX which is sanded on one side and rough on the other. Use only nice quality straight boards for your framework. I bought 1X3’s at Home Depot that were very nice. It goes a long way when you’re trying to cut them to make the layout.
I’ve seen pictures of layouts here that included nice quality wood, and others not so nice. Trust me, buy the good stuff. [;)]
I agree that you should look for dimensional lumber that is straight and reasonably knot free for framing the benchwork. If you use the L-girder method, minor warps will be taken care of when the girders are assembled. Minor warps and wows are not too much trouble for the joists as long as the crown is not too severe. Placing the crown up on all your joists will help keep things true.
As for the plywood. Driline, why is it important to use sanded 1 side plywood? I have never used sanded plywood before. Am I missing out on something by not using a better grade of plywood?
Thanks.
Kevin
I think the reason for 1 sanded side is to take care of any outwardly projecting defects in the plywood. Sometimes, depending on the quality control of the manufacturer, they may allow large “splinters” that were pressed into the outside layers. This splinters may or may not have some glue attached but will cause issues if using the plywood without an overlayment.
Yes, you’re embarrassing yourself. What if I pulled up the glued and screwed down homosote board only to find you purchased cheap plywood?
Ha! JK. I think the sanded plywood for the most part is easier to handle and cut for me anyway. I do in fact have 1/2 inch homophobe board on top, but others may not.
Another method is to use 3/8 cheap plywood, it is knotty and coarse on both sides. Run your framing 12 inch on center. After that is down, use 1/4 in underlayment, this is what they use in bathroom and kitchen areas. Fasten this to the cross joist and frame, over the top of the cheap plywood. You can glue it to for extra support.
This is a bit more work, but cabinet grade 3/4 plywoof is expensive, 3/8 inch plywood, plus the underlayment is half as much as the 3/4 together.
David,I like the ply to be “finish”(smooth) on one side.I could care less about the underside as I want a smooth finish for my sub roadbed.
Smooth. Don’t skimp on your lumber. Hopefully your layout will give you years of enjoyment. If all your wood starts warping and twisting, it will only give you years of frustration.
Be careful with terminology here. If you go to the lumber yard and order CDX you will get knotty, ugly plywood. CDX has one side that is grade C and one side that is grade D, thus the nomenclature. What you want is AB or BC plywood. AB has one side knot free and sanded. This is idea but quite expensive. I use BC which has one side B grade–only tight knots, smoth surface, but not final sanded. You get a good solid surface with BC and a few seconds with an orbital sander makes it plenty smooth.
Ron
I agree that the 3/4 inch cabinet grade is expensive and heavy in weight. There are some woods that are even heavier and much more difficult.
I have an eye towards the BC Grade 1/2 inch birch myself in 2x4 foot sections but havent made a final decision yet.
You would want to look along the wood and select the ones that are not twisted, warped and overly knotted that can be difficult in a store. 1x3’s or 1x4’s are difficult because the middle of the bundled pile seem to have the best wood while the edges are somewhat weathered or warped by the transport.
If you choose to go with very thin wood overlaying. Try not to put thier joints together. Stagger the joints.
Some of the better hardwoods are very expensive and even makes me faint at times with the costs per foot.
Freudian slip there, Driline?
Here are some priecs and quotes that I got from my work records used to build floors, or repair them, in baths and kitchens.
3/4’’ Cabinet Grade Ply, 7 layers is $50.00 sheet in Birch.
3/4’’ Cabinet Grade Ply, 7 Layers is $50.00 to $60.00 sheet in oak, maple, and fir.
1/2’’ Cabinet Grade Ply, 5 layers is $25.00 to $35.00 sheet depending on finish.
3/4’’ Sub flooring ‘‘smooth on one side’’ is around $35.00 sheet
3/4’’ H/D standard rough 5 ply is $25.00 to 30.00 sheet.
1/2’’ H/D standard rough 3 ply is $12.00 to $15.00 sheet
1/4’’ Launa underlayment smooth both sides is $12.00 to $15.00 sheet
#1 grade 2 by 4’s 8 ft long $2.31 each
#1 grade 2 by 4’s 12 ft long $3.35 each
#1 grade 2 by 4’s 10 ft long $2.79 each
#1 grade 1 by 4’s are just 10% cheaper than the 2 by 4 material.
Buying 1 by 4’s that are clear, well that last 1 by material I purchased was a week ago for a custome trim work, milling was needed. A 1 by 10, clear in fir was $35.00 10 ft long and is is very nice wood, and we do not want to even go their on the hardwoods.
1 by 4’s for framing are good, 2 by material is better, heavier to, both work good on 12 inch centers for joist and outer frame work. The plywood and surface is ones own choice, some like this some like that. All these prices I have are from a local lumber dealer close to me. Lowes, Home Depot, and Menard should be cheaper somewhat. Nailss screws, or glue is one choice to.
Have fun building your new layout.
My brother in Vancouver has built homes professionally, as a contractor/builder, for many years. When I was discussing my first layout plans with him, he urged me to use 1/2"-5/8" G1S ply (Good on 1 Side).
You will want your yard, particularly, to be reasonably flat and level for the sake of parking free-rolling stock and coupling/decoupling. Unfinished surfaces of wood will make it difficult to lay track evenly. Switching engines, particularly, have as a group (I’m talking short steamers and SW/NW and other small diesels) don’t like to be rocked back and forth, most especially as they traverse frogs…of which there oughta be one or two in a yard. They lose contact with the powered rails and stall.
[:D] No… really I’m not Gay…not that theres anything wrong with that.
I knew I had that wrong… I just pulled a set of letters outta my *** and went with it. [;)]
Be careful when selecting CDX. There’s no sanded one side on CDX. The “C” side may appear smoother. Most home centers carry crap for most of the stocked plywood. The CDX and some BC is pine, not douglas fir. Do yourself a favor and go to a quality lumber yard. The quality of the plywood can’t compare. I have found some of the crap pine CDX delaminate as it is cut, let alone a piece that got one soaking from rain. I realize you won’t be soaking the benchwork to that extent, this just shows how bad the product actually is. I had to replace 3 sheets of 5/8" CDX that a customer bought from Home Depot for roof sheathing after a rain storm wet it before any protection. Buckled, warped and started to delam from one rain. If you want to use a 1/2", check out PTS, underlayment grade. There almost no voids and it is a sanded ply. Other decent 1/2" plys w/o breaking the bank are, BCI, AC, Luan and Birch.
I would not rely on CDX for the layout unless you knew it was a quality, stable douglas fir product that had a min of 5 plys.
Falls Valley–I use 1/2 BC, and I have learned one thing. The 1/2" works well, but support it well, especially on ends that may hang past a riser like leading up to a bridge abutment. A 1/2" plywood handing 2" past a riser is almost impossible to drive a track spike into and has quite a bit of give to it.
ICRR–Personally I would thing that Birch or Oak cabinet grate is WAY overkill. Save 1/2 the $$$ and use the sanded AC or save more and use the BC.
Ron
The choice of plywood also depends on your chosen methods of layout construction. My benchwork is all of 1"x4" #1 or select pine, hand-picked for straightness and lack of structural defects, assemble, with screws, 16" o/c. Unless you use plywood ripped to dimensional sizes, or metal framing, this offers the most environmentally-stable base. The only place for 2"x lumber, in my opinion, is to support the benchwork, and I used lots of it, as there are lots of heavy-duty storage shelves under the layout. Plus there were lots of planned “leftovers” [;)] when I built my house, so it was “free” (sorta). Most lumber of this type has too high of a moisture content, especially when new, to remain stable enough to be used anywhere near the trackwork. I bought 2 or 3 sheets of 3/4" firply, good-one-side, to cut roadbed curves from, and what little straight track I have was supported on strips of 1"x2"-3"-or 4" (whatever was laying around). For yard areas, I used 3/8" spruce sheathing plywood (unsanded). It’s plenty strong enough, and it’s smooth enough to lay flextrack directly atop it, which I did. I wish that I would’ve used it in urban areas too, as most of the “ground” is flat or multi-level anyway. Instead, I covered the open grid with random hunks of 5/8" or 3/4" plywood where structures were to go, then filled in any gaps with plaster-over-screen scenery.
I still need to doubledeck part of my layout to complete the trackplan, and since I failed, for the most part, to use plywood to its best advantage in full or partial sheets on what’s been done so far, I’m going to change my methods. Framing will still be open grid, but of 1"x2", 16" o/c, then covered completely with 3/8" spruce sheathing plywood. In contrast to the rest of the layout, all track will be level, so any la
Wayne, I think that is sensible…keep the bulk low with a low centre of gravity, if that makes sense, and where the strength and weight will,…umm…come to bear best.
Higher up, keep it light and easily constructed and deconstructed to minimize sags and cracks over time. Keep unnecessary weight off what is supporting it.
-Crandell
Your layout seems huge already…and you’re adding to it?!
Kewl.
Cabinet grade lumber is expensive, I seen one guy many years ago use solid oak for making legs, oak veneer for the top 3/4’', solid oak edge molding, and all held together with stainless steel deck screws. His layout was an around the room 14ft by 14ft. I would have loved to see the bill on that one, it was really nice though. Some people want this type of framing and fancy wood. For me??? No way? Hard wood, and hard wood grade cabinet plywood is way to high in cost.
But some people want the expensive woods sometimes, I just threw it out there for just a cost factor comparision. I will agree with buy from a local lumber yard. I had allot of problems with Menards, and Lowes Materials, you could spend hours sorting them, and I have never figured out the deal with the plywood, why it seams the discount stores sell the same thickness material, but it is garbage in the end. I would rather buy from my local yard, plus I get a 15% contractors discount, and free delivery.
Oh, almost forgot, how about Marine grade ply, I have know idea what that cost, bet we don’t want to know either. Building over kill is good or expensive, like I said, ones own choice though.