I’ve just gotten back into the my railroad after quite a while away from it and putting together a new layout. I’m running N scale, mostly European 1950’s era locos.
My old layout was a 6’x3’ DC which got to the stage of being fully wired and mechanically switched and operated quite well. I never got around to balasting and scenery.
My situation is…
I have a desire to build a larger railway - about 10x6. Which I’d like to run a double main line. About half the layout will be dedicated to scenic passenger running, about a quarter to yard operations. If you have the “101 track plans for model railroaders” as most of you probably do, I’d be looking at a plan like 84, 85 or 86. Two continuous mainline loops would be good as the kids enjoy the trains just running. I’ll also go to DCC.
My question is…
The only space I have available is in my garage but I need to be able to store the layout when it isn’t in use so I can still get the car in there. I’ve built a 10x6 table, have hinged it to the wall, set up a winch and can store it vertically on the wall. Before I go any further, I’d just like to know if this is a setup (at that size) that will be feasible when fully scened up or am I just asking for more trouble than its worth? At the moment I’m also reviewing my hinging system so I can remove the layout from the hinge so I can move it and gain full access all around the layout while I’m building it. When it is complete I shouldn’t need to dehinge it unless I have a derailment out of reach or need to do some maintenance work.
I’d appreciate your thoughts and sharing your experience.
I’ve not built a layout like you describe, but I have a few years construction experieince.
This table has to be quite a bit sturdier and more rigid than a typical layout because it will have stress in directions other than down. You don’t want it to twist as you raise it. I don’t know how you built it, but I would use more joists than I would a straight table and probably I would make them out of cut 3/4" plywood to minimize warpage.
Personally I’m a big advocate of around-the-room shelf layouts, maybe a foot or two deep. The garage door would be a heck of a duckunder or swing-out gate, but it could be done and you’d have quite the long run! My old layout was a garage perimeter layout, but it was point to point. Complex pulley arrangements to elevate a layout are possible but, well, complex, and personally I wouldn’t trust a layout hung on ropes. The tilt up to the wall approach works, but you’d better make sure nothing is loose on the layout when you fold it up, which makes scenery and structures a challenge.
I’ve had good luck in the past building very ridgid but light weight articulated table tops using the torsion box method. The hollow core doors many use for N scale layouts are torsion boxes. Here’s a bit of technical info:
But I’ve not pushed my luck on a scope like a 6x10…I think the biggest I’ve made was 4x6…but the principal should work. Instead of constructing a small square grid spacer as that link illustrates, I’ve used 1-1/2 or 2 inch sheets of blue or pink foam.
Thought I’d sleep on it and think about it today. Didn’t do much sleeping though…you know how it is when you go to bed with a problem to solve in your head!!!
2 key thoughts
is the layout too big in N-scale that I’ll never get close to finishing it
the engineering of hinging and winching up to a vertical position has its own challenges in terms of structural rigidity, practicality and long term consistent running.
The answer to it being too big and finishing it is about personal motivation and setting realistic timeframes. Both of which are in my control so one that I can do something about.
Structural rigitity…can be overcome with laminating additional timber as required to the original layout. Currently a 4"x3/4" L girder frame with joists every 2’. Tied together with 1/4" MDF sheeting. The winching and hinging appears to work. I’ve run cables to a common point through the same pully. Raising on a single hinged axis is much easier than lifting 4 seperate corners. If the winch gets too heavy, an additional person pushing the layout as it’s winched will work.
I’m going to forge ahead with this size. I attached some “slide” hinges that allow me to move the layout about 3/4" laterally and get it off the hinges. With some wheels on the legs moving the layout off the hinges and then away from the wall when it is on the ground should be very easy. Adjustable height wheels should allow for fine tuning to allow me to more easily allign the hinges when I want to raise the table.
I’m going to setup my mainline runs without fully installing my turnouts to test realiability of run and at least give me a operational layout early on without investing too much time on the rest. If the winching causes havoc running a good high speed mainline then I’ll revisit the engineering side of things or rethink
I came up with twice the cons to the pros. If the garage is the ONLY place for your RR, I’d be tempted to do around the room at chest height with wings for turn around at each end. Or I would do point to point, something I thought I would never recommend.
Pros
Space management for dual purposes
Can be raised on it’s side for maintenance and construction
Dust does not cling to vertical surfaces as well as horizontal
Cons
Structural integrity is a problem, 10 X 6 can will be a huge twisting machine.
Every body’s garage is a DIRTY environment if automobiles are put in and out.
Putting several hundred cars & locos on and off the layout would be a pain in the neck for me
Multilayers limited to 2 or 3 inches else construction issues
Structures must be of limited height or removed from layout
Maintaining track alignment, kinks and flex due to twisting that WILL happen
I’m going to have a real good think about your suggestion which will involve some major reorganisation in the garage (but not too unreasonable).
Plan B…
wall mounted (fixed) shelf line, approximately 15’ long x 2-3’ wide. Wider L/corner section at one end (to allow a reaslistic loop). The length also gives me an oppotunity to set up several different themes along the line as well as enough room to have some good elevation change
mount the layout higher on the wall (about chest height as you suggest) enabling me to store rollout tools/workbenches/cupboards, bikes etc under it. I’d just need to build some platforms for the kids so they can see it…I should also be able to build it so the layout has a roof (above my eye level) which allows me to enclose it with curtains to keep dust out when it isn’t in use.
I’d need to give some thought to being able to relocate the layout if we move or my dream of building a dedicated shed comes about. This should be pretty simple on a fixed layout if it is built with modular principles.
I recon another week or so of procrastination will just about do it[%-)]
I’ve never considered such a thing, for all the reasons listed. But I do have one “off-the-wall” suggestion, if you’ll pardon the pun:
Instead of a hinged fold-up, could you have a straight-up lift? I’d think 4 steel cables, perhaps fitting in eyelets for easy removability (if that’s a word), with the appropriate pulleys, would solve both your problems at once. It would go straight up, so rolling stock, buildings, etc., wouldn’t fall off. And you’d have access all the way around. It would still have to be pretty sturdy, though.
If your ceiling is high enough, legs could be permanently attached. Otherwise they’d need to be hinged, or perhaps a couple of sturdy sawhorse-type supports could be used.
And you wouldn’t have to spend a lot of time crawling underneath to do wiring, etc.; just raise it up a couple of feet!
I tried and actually setup a 4 cable horizonal lift on the table. It wasn’t a lot of fun crawling in the roof space and placing bolts through rafters. It’s the middle of summer here in Aus and under a tin roof it was pretty warm…
The effort to hand winch, effectively dead-lift, a heavy structured table was significant. It can be done but was putting a lot of strain on my winch, arm and the pulleys/eyelets. I didn’t think it was sustainable and would eventually find the weakest link and fail. Plus having it sit above a car was a worry.
In order to lift the table more easily I would have had to install a counterbalances system which would mean more cables and complexity.
I then went to the hinged method which is much simpler and involves considerably less wiring and winching effort as you are lifing on a pivot point. Much lighter and more stable. Problem with this on a large table is the need to have everything fixed really well to the table and as it was hinged to the wall, access to one side was limited. Longer term, I’m pretty sure the table would flex and twist.
I’m now decided that a better approach is the one followed by the majority of modellers. I need to get much smarter with my storage in my garage, build a few movable storage units that will roll under the layout to hold tools etc. I will build the layout higher and go for a design that gives me a long run along the length of the garage. I can keep it fairly narrow so that I still have plenty of room. Being N scale, I can turn a train around in a reasonably small width in a hidden loop at the ends.
The only version of a hinge-up layout the ever looked at all practical in actual use to me was the Murphy bed style suggested by John Armstrong. A critical part of his layout plan was a fixed shelf that did not fold up that contained a yard. The rolling stock would all be run into the yard before folding up the main section. Without the fixed yard, rerailing and removing rolling stock becomes too much of a burden to use the hinge mechanism.
In studying this plan (somebody else can probably remember the name) some other issues became apparent.
The fold up system and vertical clearances for scenery and structures have to be carefully planned to be compatible with each other. All successful layouts that fold up that I have seen published end up protruding from the wall about 12" in the folded position.
the joint where the fixed yard and hinged main section join will have to be carefully engineered to have and maintain tight tolerances throughout the temperature and humidity extremes that the layout will experience over it life.
ceiling height and layout height when lowered limit one dimension of the hinged layout. The rigid span capability of the benchwork between the pivots limits the other dimension.
the raising/lowering mechanism must be able to support the layout in an intermediate position while support legs/chains/wires are being deployed or retracted.
Any system/plan that does not address these issues adequately will doom the layout to be left in one position of the other semi-permanently. The layout must be easily and reliably shifted from one position to the other. (The latter is true of any hinge-up/hinge-down/lift-out section, or it becomes a permanent duck-under!)