Thanks for all of the comments so far. I am starting a new thread to cover updates as a result of prior comments. Only major structures are shown and actual track and structures are not nit-picked for exact location. I am more concerned about function and general layout than anything else. This is one end of a point-to-point operation/
The original layout:
The updated layout:
What do you think now?
Alan,
Forgive me but I think the two turnouts, the one behind the engine house and it’s counterpart on the other side of your turntable are going to be the scourge of your layout. Not only are they out of your reach. you will have to turn your wrist a a 90 degree angle over the engine house so even if you have 36" arms, your reach will be 28" with your wrist bent. In addition, the station will keep you from leaning over the layout. And the turntable will be just as bad. You won’t have a direct view of the track alignment and if it is off a little, you derail.
I hate to be a wet rag, but you really need to re-think this. I know your mind is set, but it will be easier to solve on paper than to change the framing when it drives you nuts. The easiest solution is to remove the front track and build the facia 8" closer than you have it now. Even that is deeper than recommended. You have the space you have. Don’t fudge on the “rules” to cram in more than you have room for. It’s not worth it.
Everyone needs a wet rag at times [:)]. Thanks for the response.
The TU behind the engine house is 38" from the edge and could be a problem.
The TU top right of the turntable is 31" from the edge as shown.
Since none of the dimensions are cast in wood or concrete yet - I can (and will) end up making some changes based on the way that things fit…
What about operation as presented?
It looks like a great place to operate.
A couple notes:
Assuming you pull into one of the AD tracks at the top, run around the train and push your freight cars into the yard and pick up cars, and take the new train out with a new engine, You need a front facing track for your cabooses or they will constantly be in the way.
Assuming that you drop the engine off for service and a switcher moves freight in and out of the industries and classification yard, you need a switcher pocket that will keep it out of the way in addition to the caboose track.
Assuming you swtich in either manner, the escape track going from the classification yard though old town is not needed and opens up another classification track Disconnected from the yard, it can serve as a service track–ash pit, coal, water , sand etc–and maybe even connect back to the TT. At any rate, the track is superfoulous and if eliminated or used differently, it will allow you to collapse that area either by eliminating the current service track, which is not easy to get to from the engine house, or by moving old town closer to the TT. It may get you the reach you need.
If I recall the original description, that is not a classification yard but a mine, and the track through “old town” is actually and industry track where cars are spotted so that they can service the rear doors of the old town merchants. The double end is needed in case a car in there somewhere cannot be moved while loading/unloading.
Wow - I figured that this thread was dead and buried, especially with the forum change over. I will try and shed some light on the last post and expected operations with the latest (tweeked) layout.
Tracks are numbered. Some leads are not numbered. I may not get all of the termanology right (please excuse/correct mistakes).
1,2 & 3 = in town storage for sorting and building small trains.
4 = lead for service tracks.
5 & 6 = incomming passenger (6) and freight (5) tracks. The track not currently used is a run around track.
7 = freight and warehouse siding at bottom and out bound passenger train upper.
8 = service for engines - sand and coal. Run around for engine used to move coal and sand cars. Access to the engine house (used for repairs).
9 = Incomming coal and sand. Upper end can store some extra car and lower end can be used for temp car storage (freight to old town area).
10 & 11 - Arrival/departure tracks and general switching usage.
12 = Main line access to terminal and freight
I am not entirely sure why you have a triple spiral/loop dominating 2/3 of your layout (to the right and bottom) while all your industries and town are located in the upper left 1/3. [%-)] Trains run around in a spiral 3 times around the lower right part of your layout for no apparent reason. Can you explain why you planned it that way ?
The green track near the turnout labeled “to AROCK” appears to join your yard track (#10) (although no turnout is indicated) by crossing a turnout on the other yard track (#11) and your mainline (#12). I’m not so sure this will work very well – you’ll probably have to build this by hand as I doubt you’ll find any such configuration available commercially.
Speaking of that turnout “to AROCK”… where does the diverging track go ? [%-)]
Also, those turnouts Chip (SpaceMouse) was refering to in one of his first posts still are very unreachable. Chip is quite correct in pointing out that they will be real problematic, not just for maintenance but for installation.
How does the inbound passenger train get onto the outbound track for departure ? If you have an inbound passenger train in the station, how does the freight locomotive escape from the freight track ? You may want to design the area around the passenger station differently.
If you use track 13 as a caboose track you foul your passenger and freight operations in that area.
Last year, a 6’ 6" guy was building a layout with a reach to his back turnouts of 36". He used all the arguments you are using about how he tested his reach. He said he could reach everything if he used a stool. Within a month of building his benchwork, he had ripped it out and started over.
You seem married to how your town should look–in other words it is a classic example of trying to put too much into too little space. You need to compromise and loose one of your tracks so you can get your maximum reach down to 30". This week I was working on scenery at 30" and it is uncomfortable. There are many things I’d like to use two hands on, and I can’t.
At my club, I have been working on sections that are not reachable from the floor. I had to build platforms that protected the tracks to climb on get to those areas. When the turnouts have problems I have to file on things I can’t see. Climb off the table, test. Climb back on the table and try again. The same goes for cleaning. Climb on the table. You have structures you will climbing on.
You can make your plan work. I gave you one suggestion, there are all sorts of others.
I’m going to be blunt, because you are not getting it. You have a flawed plan. You are not ready to build. Work it out now or rip it up and plan later.
I am going to reply to the last two comments in one post.
Chip,
I appreciate and understand your comments. Track 13 is intended to be temporary; the engine will pick up the caboose on the way out. I believe that you, and others, have had reach problems. I have had reach problems in the past. Except for initial scenery and the occasional derail (hopefully, very rare), I will have no need to reach over 30" on the layout as shown.&nb
Thanks. I intend to enjoy every second–if I can get out of work tonight.
I’ve made my case, so that is the end of it.
When you build your lower benchwork, that would be the time to make your test. Find some objects about the size of your structures and place them where they will be in the layout. Be sure to include any tress that might be part of the landscape and test your reach again. If everything works, great. I’d love to switch that layout.
One last bid for the caboose track. Unfortunately, the plan with the number tracks is not visible while I type this so I can’t give numbers. But look at the turnout where you were going to put the caboose. Just to the left of it is a straight that is long enough for a turnout toward town. A 9" straight there and you have room for 2-3 cabooses without any fouling of tracks.
I may or not see your response. Good luck. Post pictures of your progress.
Some progress on the layout - thanks to all that helped (especially Space Mouse). I added caboose tracks at the entrance to Hardspot (right side of the schematic).
I should start building this weekend (maybe as late as Monday). The “final” plan for Hardspot (major flatland community) is as follows. Stage 1 (2 lines - 4’ and 8’) will be built first. Stage 2 is the upper level above Hardspot (Arock, a major mining community). Stage 3 will be the mountains (climbing loop and the small mining community of Between). I managed to include a circular running loop around the mountain, for continuous train running (heavy orange lines around the climbing loop). Rough elevations are shown at the climbing loop turnout and at the entrance to the second level of Arock (23" climb from Hardspot to Arock).
All engines and some running stock has been degbugged on a 34" x 96" test layout with 15" radius curves; and converted to DCC. The final layout will have a minimum of 18" radius used.
I grabbed some “scrap” material and did a rough layout of Hardspot (things just set into place, not nailed/glued down). this allowed me to juggle things around to try and compress the layout size (for potential reach problems).
The small end of Hardspot (plywood strip is actual front edge of real layout).
The wide end of Hardspot - connects to a 12" wide shelf portion of the layout.
For all of you that still think that the reach may be too much. I checked. The temporary layout is 4" higher than the real layout will be and is
I made a few sight changes. Added cross over in front switch yard and moved things around to allow a max reach of 34" from layout edge to backdrop.
This post is to bump the thread and try one more time for comments.
It is not too late for comments; however, I should start laying track tomorrow. I bought the wood and did the benchwork for Hardspot and Arock today.
Most of the track for the main part of Hardspot has been laid and actually works with two different engines. DCC is only hooked up at the end of the track (outside the photo on the right). Max run is about 14’ of track with several turnouts in the run. Tomorrow (oops - today), I will run track to the turntable and start the wiring process. At last the start of a real layout !
Looking Food Alan. Keep us posted.
Glad to see you back; safe and happy.
I will update every so often; unless people object.
Everything is wired and running in the main part of Hardspot. I now need to build the switch panels for the turnouts and hook the turnouts up to the switches (turnouts are wired and the wires bundled up to the control panel locations.
Left end of Hardspot with control panel printouts:
Center of Hardspot:
Right end of Hardspot; with turntable:
Part of the under bench work wiring. I am using an old power pack to turn the turntable and to power the turnouts. I have three sub zones installed (Front yard, back yard, and entry to Hardspot area). I am going to use the 1156 tail light bulbs to feed each zone from the main. All buss wires are 12 gage and feeder drops and turnout supply is 20 gage wire.
