I often leave my LGB power pack and my Aristo Craft radio control throttle on for long periods of time when trains are not running but I am outside working in the garden.
Is this harmful in any way to the power pack and/or throttle?
Hey there,
Good question. I don’t believe so but perhaps someone else here will know for sure. I do know that the grocery store layout I attend to leaves their MRC transformer on 24 / 7. No problems for years now. Later eh…Brian.
Neither are under any load so it shouldn’t affect them in any way.
Mark
I remember my old O gauge Marx transformer would actually start to smoke if left on for too long!!!
I havent have any trouble so far with accidentally leaving mine on either I beleive this is because they are low voltage, and unless the train is running or theres power going to the track, its essentially “off”. IOWs if its plugged in, but the throttle in on the 0 notch, theres 0 current flowing thru it, hence theres nothing flowing to any part of it to overheat or damage.
My old O gauge pack would “transform” the power level from 120v AC stepping down to 12v AC by maintaining a constant converted 12v power level on one side, only by opening the throttle would allow a percentage of this power to the rails. It operated exactly like a real transformer does, and like a real one they give off a lot of heat in the step down precess, thats why it smoked when left on, even in the 0 setting, it was still “ON” at the converter between the cord and the throttle.
Modern powerpacks that convert 120v AC to 6v DC dont “step down” the AC like an O gauge but convert the power to DC in an “as needed” mode depending on the throttle setting, If your running DCC which relies on a constant “full power” setting to the track, then YES you might have a heat buildup and realiability problem if left on constantly, but for most analog setups I dont think it should be an issue.
However saying this I still beleive its much better and way safer to switch off or unplug your pack when not operating it. You dont want to risk someone or a pet accidentally moving the throttle to the power position and overheating it. One thing you can use is a plug in on/off switch at the outlet or use an oulet strip with a switch and a power light so you know if its on or off and can switch it off when not in use.
I switch all my power off when the RR isn’t in use. No particular reason I guess except if there’s no power, there’s no hazard or danger. Could have something to do with everything operating out of a wooden shed, even though it’s protected by an RCD. The shed would burn really well if it got going though.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
Transformers will tend to overheat if the secondary presents no ‘load’ to the primary. The current going to the engines reflects a load into the primary winding and has a limiting effect on the primary current. A coil of wire has very little resistance and if no load is induced through ‘transformer action’, the primary current increases.
A well designed ‘power supply’ will have more than just a transformer and could limit the current allowed in the primary winding. Cheap transformers seldom had enough iron to do a ‘cool’ job.
Safety considerations would suggest any heat producing product should be disconnected when not in use; sort of like turning the washing machine valves off before going on vacation - who wants to come back to a flooded house.
In a true transformer, i.e. 2 sets of windings sharing a common core (whether air, ferrite, iron or whatever) draw less current in the primary if no load is presented to the secondary.
They will however draw some current since they are completing a circuit and have a certain AC resistance, called impedence.
I don’t believe what was said is right about no load. Can you provide a reference, or formula?
One benefit of leaving the transformer on, is the small amount of heat generated helps keep moisture from condensing on the unit when left outside.
But, I’d say the benefit is negated since heat eventually ages transformer windings, and as soon as it cools, it will draw air inside, much like a muffler in a car… we have all seen water coming out of a tailpipe just after starting.
Regards, Greg
p.s. many power supplies are more complex than a transformer, full wave bridge and a rheostat nowadays.
A modern power supply should have no trouble operating continuously. Even the old ones that get hot shouldn’t have any trouble idling while you’re working in the garden.
I don’t really understand all this electrical stuff.Sometimes I accidently leave it on for days.Nothing really happens.(apart from the cat decides to walk on the grass rather than the track)
I do the same thing from time to time. I haven’t had any problems at all. I do like the safety factor of turning the unit off, electricity is a funny thing some times.
Sounds like you answered your own question- if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!
Interesting the talks about transformers and power supplies as I sold them for a living for 18 years some 20 odd years ago and had forgotten much of what has been said.
However as I see it most normal transformers have a properly designed primary and as such the only current drawn is that used to generate the magnetising current, as such they will act as a choke and little or nothing will be affected.
However and i’m not sure of my ground here. some poorely designed transformers will over heat with no load on them and also sometimes they are designed for a specific purpose and other factors come into play and leaving them in this situation will definiteley affect their life.
Of course impregnation of the windings and core is important and depending on the climatic situation and the type of impregnation involved this uneven running may draw moisture into the the coils and in some cases cause "greenspoting: This is an electrolytic activity that will eat your windings away and you may possibly get Moby *** which is not nice.
Rgds ian
I recall over hearing a converstaion between the lady in charge of our winding section talking to the tea lady who wanted to know what impregnation was and she said "if you get impregnated your stuffed.
I thought the issue would be power surges - which I suppose depends on the quality of your local utility, and demands on it.
if your power is off, and unplugged the risk is minimised!
Absolutely 100 % right, however we do forget from time to time. However unless it is a mighhty surge the primary should really protect itself to a large extent while it is acting as a choke!
Rgds ian
Rgds Ian
I have forgotten now and then but I wired my shed and all outside electrics to conform with the new electrical/building regs that operate in the UK, so rather than go all the way out to the shed I trip the RCD on the mains board that feeds all of the outside electrics.
I don’t know about your countries but here in the UK the electrical installation is now under building regulations and all stages of the installation are subject to inspection by the local council inspectors. Anything installed after Jan 1 this year has to have a pass certificate which will be needed when selling your house, apparently a few dozen people are getting fataly zapped by diy sparks every year. I am a spark by trade & a spark friend inspected my work. Slightly off topic, but never mind!!
Goodness knows what the inspector would think about garden railways and all that low voltage in the tracks and a burglar might get a tickle if he touched it, probably ban the hobby. Saying that I’m amazed that live steam models are allowed in this country with the state of our Health & Safety legislation.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
Hi
With a modern good quality transformer controler set up there should not be a problem but when the unit is older there could be nothing lasts for ever.
Leave it on when not in use and it will add to your electricity bill with those power on lights money better going towards more trains.
Admitedly not a lot of money but it all helps.
the possable safety conciquences have been mensioned so I will not dwell on those
regards John
As long as the power supply has proper heat sinking, no damage will occur by leaving it on. Some older power supplys didn’t have adequate heat sinking. If it gets hot to the touch with no load, then unplug it. Modern electronics with proper heat sinking are actually better off left plugged in. As stated before, the minimal heat generated keeps the circuits dried out. Another advantage is, the start up inrush currents put more stress on the circuits than leaving the circuit on continiuously. Many modern power supplies have special circuits that limit the amount of current that can flow at start up. They bring the circuit up to voltage in steps to eliminate or at least ease the stress at start up.
Another reason to leave it on is thermal. The change from cold to hot, and hot to cold, causes stress to the circuits also. Modern solid state circuits virtually have an unlimited life span if not subjected to unusual streses.
One thing I would recommend is, since a DCC system is really a simple computer, run everything through a power line conditioner, and battery backup system. They are cheap now days. About $35 for a bottom line UPS. Stops the surges, voltage fluctuations, and dropouts, that tend to do the damage. It’s amasing how dirty the typical house current is. Since I started using a UPS for everything I own, I’ve not had a failure of any equipment. Before, I would occasionally loose stuff. I wouldn’t run anything now without one.
I leave everything on unless I am going to be gone for a long period of time.