In our area, traditional stop lights lit by bulbs are being replaced by newer assemblies that contain dozens of LEDs (up to 100, I would guess) in place of a single bulb. They are very intense, and from what I’ve heard, they save the local municipality a lot of money over the course of a year because each uses far less engery. Plus, since the life expectancy is far greater, you also save greatly on maintenance crews who used to be needed to replace burned out bulbs. Those two factors add up to great potential cost savings over the course of time and were probably why we’re seeing a move in the new direction, even if it is more costly up front. (And if you’ve ever been to southeast Wisconsin, you’ve probably noticed that there’s typically 2 stop lights for every 1 that’s needed. Some intersections look like an airport runway, so the savings could be huge.)
Anyway, to my question. Does anyone have any knowledge of either these lights, or the LED technology, to know whether these could ever be adapted for railroad signal use? It’d be interesting to know if a new LED signal could be as intense as a traditional bulb-lit type.
I’ve been pondering this for months, as I wait at stop lights. I’ve finally taken the time to ask. I hope someone knows.
Bergie,
I’m not sure about the rail industry;but Police,Fire and EMS are using “LEDs”
in various forms in the vehicle warning lights,and also in certain flashlights.
I would imagine given time,it will come to the railroads.
I’m adding this with “tounge in cheek”,but some of us modelers have
been using LEDs in signals for quite awhile.[:)]
I know,not the same thing.
I think we had a thread a while back about these LED signals, how they don’t just fail, but slowly dim until they’re useless at some point. Of course, we haven’t had the required time to see that on any of the traffic lights yet.
As to LEDs in use on the railroad, next time you ride Amtrak into Chicago from Milwaukee (you do do that, don’t you?), check out the dwarf signal at the Lake Street Interlocking (oops, Control Point), just before Union Station. One head, three or four colors, hundreds of little LEDs. I think there’s a photograph of that one in Brian Solomon’s book on railroad signals.
LED signals are not much brighter overall but they are much more directional – that is more of the light that is emitted is directed in the direction of the observer. There is little need for the large reflector that is behind most incandesent signals. As a result they can be seen from further away - if track geometry allows. Sgnals are a natural application but we are starting to see them in general illumination applications as well for the same reasons - long life, low energy consumption, and low heat emission. I will be a brighter future.
Bergie: Look at GRS, Harmon and a few of the others web sites. At the railroad trade shows, the LED fixtures have been prominent for almost 10 years. General Electric uses a searchlight signal in their booth that almost blinds people on the floor.
What is really wild are the applications of some of the smaller vendors for blue lights and marker lights plus induction lighting for pavement crossing approaches and bridges.
Although LED stoplights have a fairly high initial cost, the savings are so substantial and compelling that here in New York City, for example, all the green and red (but not the intermittent yellow, yet) traffic lights, including the walk-don’t walk signs, have been replaced. I don’t have the numbers at hand, but LEDs use only a few percent of the current that incandescents use. More to the point, the savings in maintenance (bulbs don’t have to be replaced) are even larger because LEDs are thought to last for a life time. In a city where there are stoplights on every corner (there must be well over a 100 thousand) the savings in operating costs and maintenance add up to a lot of money. They are incredibly bright. Sometimes I’ve mistaken the green light for an oncoming car light. Indeed the ambient light coming into my apartment is now so bright that I can get enough light to read a book by just leaving the blinds open. It would seem to me that the railroads would benefit even more than cities by adopting this technology.
I have a Lightwave 4000 flashlight (try Googling it). The LEDs are guaranteed for 10,000 hours, but that’s probably conservative. It gives off a white light so bright you can’t look straight into the lit LED array. LED flashlights are different in that the light is diffuse and not in a concentrated beam. Aside from initial price, my only criticism is that because of the narrow spectral characteristics of current LED technology, the objects lit by them may appear to be very harsh and unflattering. Of course this doesn’t matter if the use is only for signalling. During the blackout last year, I left it on all night pointed at the ceiling, lighting the entire room adequately. In another forum, a respondent said he wanted to test the battery life and left his on for 6 weeks before giving up.
There is an LED brakeman’s lantern available. Some alertors on engines use them in the warning lights. At night they are so bright that they need to be partially blocked from direct view.
The only possible problem I can see with LED’s in signals is their having the candle-power to equal or exceed a standard signal bulb. The FRA has certain standards or visability and as long as these are met, the LED will replace the standard bulbs.
Railroads tend to not change the way they do things unless/until utside forces force them to - such as rules, standards or “the bottem line”.
Power use? I have a boat that I use at night a lot, and used to have several deepcycle batteries in addition the the starting battery. I could use up the deepcycle batteries in 18 hours. LED’s will take a single battery to over 200 hours. I accidently left the master battery switch on for over 8 days with all the lights on and still had juice in the single deepcycle battery I now use.
It seems to be a “might as well” thing, as my breaklights burn out, i will change them to LED units. They really do get your attention, as they switch on instant. I already have a hitch cover break light for the diesel, and i know that it shines right into any car windshield makin sure i am noticed.
Most new rail signals in Australia are LED units, just as the road traffic signals are. The rail signals on the Sydney Harbour Bridge, next to the road traffic lanes have been LED units for two years or more. These are visible to most bridge users (if they look). The Bridge and the adjacent underground lines use track occupation indicator lights, visible to track workers, operated from the track circuits and dark when the track is in use. These were small white lights for many years, but are now vertical orange bars made up of LEDs. On the bridge these are mounted on the back of the track signals, and in the tunnels on the tunnel walls.
The Amber LEDs, used in Australia for turnout indications, are a greenish shade quite different from the old lamps.
LED’s can be had in just about any color you want. In addition, you can get a number of “beam widths,” just by how the plastic is molded. This would address any such issues the RR may have.
The emergency services are embracing LED’s very vigorously, and the vendors are answering with improved optics and reduced prices. Light bars that ran close to $3000 a couple of years ago are about 2/3 that now. And those lights are BRIGHT.
I can get 100 LEDs retail, on line, in a bunch of different colors, for about $80. Imagine the price break for 100,000.
One reason municipalities haven’t replaced the amber in stoplights is because they aren’t on very much, so limited ROI. Even flashing lights at rural intersections are going LED. New stoplights typically have amber LEDs. Another advantage to LEDs is that if one fails, the rest of the “light” is still on. In many applications they are actually daisy-chained. The “third brake lights” I use as grille flashers in my truck have lost a couple of three LED groups.
An automotive LED “bulb” draws 90 milliamps for a brake light (only 40 ma for tail), or about 1 watt. I’m not sure what the typical RR signal lamp draws, but even going to the 100 LEDs that Bergie cites, thats still all of 8 watts, or about the same as a full power night light or Christmas tree bulb.
I don’t think it’s a matter of if the RRs will change to LEDs, but when.
“When” will probably be when the current lights burn out. Replacement LED bulbs at AutoZone are about $15 (when I was looking at them), which I would say would last the typical service life of a car. (~10-15 years)
On the Belt Railway of Chicago, most of the signals are now lit with LED’s. I can attest they are much brighter and you can see them for miles if at the right angle.
As others have said power consumption for LEDs is significantly lower than an ordinary incadescant bulb. I have three of the single lens traffic lights fitted with
LEDs on the end of my boat dock as safety lights for boats. The cost is about $36 per unit vs about $3.50 per long life traffic light bulb. I used the LED inserts. It does get a little cold in the water in winter even in Texas and to change the bulb requires an extension ladder in the lake plus a little swimming. Not a pleasant thought this time of year. The safety lights are manditory on docks at my lake (lake board rule) and I want them for the legal liability issue. There are two types; those with pig tail leads and the screw in type. Both types operate on 120 volts, although 12 or 24 volt types are available. The units are either 8 or 12 inches in diameter, depending upon the size of the housing you have. Bought the housings on eBay for under $20 each. Vendors can be found with the search engines. I bought my LEDs from Lights to Go.
I heard that initially some railroads had misgivings about LED due to the color emitted. The red is very railroadish, however the green is a little lighter than the traditional railway signal. I do not think that any sober engine crew member would mistake the lighter green for anything else than GREEN!