I don’t see any posts about it here, but at the other forum there are sizeable threads by some members of this forum concerning the problems after the upgrade of the Legacy system to 1.2. Many guys are trying to go to the earlier 1.0 version it’s so bad. Two biggest problems are a new lack of communication between the handheld and the base, and batteries discharging at an accelerated rate. Also it seems the batteries get very hot when charging in the base. Some guys tried switching from rechargeable batteries to alkaline batteries to see if that improved communication, but that didn’t help either. Other guys had installed special “Hawkins” antenna boosters for better range/coverage with version 1.0, but now find that with version 1.2 that makeshift fix doesn’t work any more. These problems aren’t just with guys with large layouts. Trains go into a tunnel and suddenly the comms cut out. Lionel is aware of the problems, but no solution yet. There is a theory among some that the new software is using more power than the previous version and that is drawing down power to a low level quickly and causing the loss of comms. But others have the problem with fresh alkaline batteries and they have checked the voltage in the batteries before installing.
Interesting. I havent sent mine in for upgrading and i may hold off a bit now. i have no complaints with the system as it is now.
MTH had problems when they first came out with DCS, so it’s not a big surprise Legacy has bugs in it. I’m just kinda surprised Lionel didn’t catch this problem before the recall. It would really hurt them bad if people have to return the unit for a second time.
I sent my Legacy back on July 2nd and worked great until about 3 weeks ago when I tried to power up the Cab2, got a light on for a second and grapics then zap nothing, screen went dead. Tried it with new recharged batteries and same thing happened. Then tried disposable batteries and worked for about 15 minutes then zap nothing again. Called Lionel got a RA# and sent the Cab 2 back now I’m waiting. I’ll let YUZ GIZ knows what goes on.
laz57
Thanks for checking in Laz. I know you and Chief were two from here that posted they were having comms problems. Keep us posted over here about progress and changes Lionel makes. Good grief…I hope it doesn’t mean everyone is gonna have to send them back in again.
My cab2 works fine with 1.2.
Now if I stand 20’ from the layout facing away from it & hold the cab2 under the display I get the flashing red lite.
What’s really weird was two guys said they were standing right next to the base and got the flashing red light. Something is definitely amiss somewhere in the system. [:(]
Not necessarily…
Legacy runs in the 2.4GHz wireless range. The same range as most home cordless phones, wireless LANs, home automation systems, garage door openers, etc. So there is a good chance they haven’t located a signal channel they aren’t already using.
I have a 2.4GHz wireless network card in my trainroom computer, 2.4GHz cordless phone, and my new garage door openers are very close in range to the trainroom. I have the most problems when the LAN is active. I am looking into upgrading the cordless phones and the LAN in the near future. It isn’t all that expensive to do and should eliminate any signal interference with Legacy.
When I sent my system in for upgrade I had just received the dreaded ‘Base Can Not Be Found’ error on the Cab-2. When I got it back - no error, all my engine, track, and train info was still there, and everything worked flawlessly. I would venture to guess that more people are having problems with the more data they have stored in the Cab-2 (the more engines, trains, accessories, switches, routes, etc) you have the more electricity it takes to store this information, and therefore the faster the batteries will drain. Now I would hope Lionel didn’t do this as it would be very short-sited, and the information should be transmitted from the Cab-2 to the base for storage and only transmitted back to the Cab-2 apon request. This would also make it easier to add additional Cab-2s to the mix.
I haven’t been in the trainroom much in the last th
Deputy, you stand accused of trolling (via complaint e-mails).
Why don’t you post some links to the discussion threads you’ve seen on other forums in order to enlighten others.
And no, this is not how I wanted to start my Monday.
From what has been indicated here and elsewhere on the 'net, this is not the case.
Reports from those who have done so indicate that it’s possible for one to take ones CAB-2 to another layout, turn it on, find the channel, and immediately have the full listing of everything on the second layout.
Thus, it seems as though everything is in fact stored on the base.
In any case, mine has not been upgraded yet. I’ve had some communications problems, which doesn’t surprise me given that we and all of our neighbors have wireless networks, and we also have a set of 2.4G telephones. I’m currently on channel 5, whichs seems to work better than channel one.
I do wish, however, that Legacy had retained the seemingly problem free 900 Mhz frequency of TMCC.
PS. Bob,
Considering that the OP doesn’t own, and claims that doesn’t plan on buying Legacy, it seems to me as though that’s a reasonable accusation.
No, I was not one of the people who e-mailed Bob
Bob: Happy to do so. I purposely didn’t post links to the discussion threads because some forums frown on that type of activity. Here ya go:
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/6421036574
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/7671057774
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/5091057674
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/3651096774
I posted the thread because I wanted to make people aware of the situation. No ulterior motives involved. I know DCS also had problems when it first came out, so it’s no surprise Legacy is also experiencing teething problems. I have no doubt they will be worked out, since Neil Young actually posted in one of the above threads that they are aware of it and are working on a fix. There…that should satisfy my numerous critics [:D]
Since I was recently questioned about my comments about the Legacy still having bugs, I thought I’d try and search out this thread. I also checked on the OGR forum for the latest info, since bug reporting seems to be more active there. Here are the most recent threads about it. The problems with rechargeable batteries getting excessivley hot, premature battery drain, and loss of communication between base and remote still exist. Lionel is still working on the problem but there is still no fix. Most folks have given up on rechargeable batteries and switched to alkalines (make sure you switch the base to non-charging mode!). Makeshift fixes include reverting back to the previous software version (1.0) and the installation of booster antennas.
BTW…I have also been accused of “trolling” again for negative feedback about Legacy because I don’t own the system. I counter that accusation with “why would I buy the system when it is still experiencing all these problems?”
If DCS was experiencing these problems I wouldn’t own it either.
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/8791041874
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/1051043974
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/3821017674
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/54860292/m/4471008774
Dep
Please, Please, Please, understand that the following is MY opinion only, and I am NOT trying to persuade anyones determination to purchase or not purchase the Legacy system.
I FIND, the system to be disappointing. Foregoing the problems and issues, I can’t say I find the features that beneficial, expecially in consideration of the fanfare and anticipation prior to release. The quillable whistle is very nice, but I have learned to feather whistles with the DCS system. The vibration feature is pretty much a non-starter. I am really not aware of anyone who likes it or even uses it routinely. I find the controller awkward and unyieldly. The display is OK, but I havn’t learned the effectiveness of the speed bar either.
On a positive side, I think it is great that a significant amount of visibility is afforded as compared to the CAB-1 controller. And, I think Lionel HAD to come out with something to provide that benefit.
The engines that I have seen todate that are intended for Legacy, are absolutely phenomenol ! I can just watch them for hours, and admire the detail and appreciate the sounds.
Fortunately, I am not having any issues with the operation of Legacy, currently. And I have had it upgraded to Ver 1.2. I have since reloaded ver. 1.0, and am using alkaline batteries. However, I typically start my engine with Legacy, (due to the additional start-up sequence that is available), then switch over to my DCS controller for continued operation. In all fairness, I have all my switches, and accessories connected to a DCS/AIU, and therefore can control my entire operation with one controller. Including all my engines. The only constraint I am aware of is doing a Lash-UP between my scale Cab-Forward, and Big Boy engines. (Start-up knocks the ZW off-line, which requires a upgrade chip in the ZW that I havn’t installed yet.) Anyway, that lash-up configuration is not something that I would routin
“If DCS was experiencing these problems I wouldn’t own it either.”
Obviously not true since the problems exist, at least for some people, just not for you :). I can find similar threads about DCS six years after its introduction. While some problems (such as the early problems with destruction due to lack of appropriate overcurrent protection) have been addressed, many others (loose RF boards in the handheld, signal extinction by certain layout configurations, etc.) remain for at least some folks. Just like Legacy, a complex system like DCS has its teething problems and, in the case of DCS thus far (and probably Legacy in the long run), design compromises that cause problems. Most folks do not experience these problems (unless you’ve got a large modular layout and DCS), which is why DCS is still on the market despite these ongoing issues and pitfalls. Legacy has been around less than a year. Come back in six years and see if Legacy or DCS has more residual problems. DCS was much more of a disaster when it was introduced in 2002 for more people, than Legacy has been in 2008. Neither has been as bulletproof and simple as TMCC was in 1996 but that’s a simpler system with less to go wrong.
I’m not sure that I would use the word “disaster,” Neil. I don’t remember any recalls of the product.
There not been any recalls for Legacy either. Lionel gave Legacy owners the OPTION of sending their units in to have the upgrade performed for them, or doing the upgrade themselves. But there was no OFFICIAL recall.
Neil: You’re correct, I’ve had zero problems with DCS since I’ve owned it. And I am aware that some folks are having problems with things like not being able to do updates. I also haven’t had that problem. I’ve updated both on an old comp using a serial port, and on a relatively new laptop using a USB cable. Both worked flawlessly. I suspect some of the update problems with DCS are more related to people and computers, than the update system itself. BTW…I have a standing offer to anyone on this forum who needs a DCS update to do it for them for free. All they have to do is pay the shipping both ways. And yes, I take PayPal for the shipping charge back to them. [:D] I know some train stores are charging $15 or more for the update. I just don’t think that’s right. But that’s just me. [;)]
I am also fully aware of the early problems MTH had with DCS. As I said, if they were having the same or similar problems like Lionel, I wouldn’t buy their system either. I have no grudge with Lionel. I have the CAB-1 system, although I never use it. I have a lot of Lionel rolling stock, locomotives, and transformers. I also agree to a great exent with Don and his above post. MTH has already started releasing locos with “quillable horns/whistels”, so that big feature is gone from Legacy. I would never use that vibration setting. I don’t even know why they installed that. You can get more realism with a CDROM recording of a rumble played through a subwoofer in a stereo.
As Don says, the display is okay, but I prefer an actual MPH speed readout over speed bars.
I also agree that the locos that have been released, especially the Big Boy, have some cool stuff on them. Unfortunately, none of them would fit into the era/roadnames I use. So I haven’t bought any of them. I have no doubt a scale GG-1 will eventually be released in the Vision Line with all the goodies on it. And hopefully a scale NYC Hudson will
" I’m not sure that I would use the word “disaster,” Neil. I don’t remember any recalls of the product"
OK, maybe disaster is too strong a word. Let’s just say, without fear of contradiction :), that DCS was, immediately after introduction, much more problematic to more people and had more worrisome (overheating/burnout) problems than Legacy has had. I hope that seems fairer. People either weren’t in the hobby at the time or have inadequate perspective if they think Legacy, with its relatively minor and uncommon difficulties is a problem child and DCS is without problems or was without major problems at introduction.
Without the help of consumer input through the OGRR Forum in particular, many folks would have given up on DCS in frustration. To their credit MTH fixed some of the problems (e.g., installed fuses in the second run of TIUs), and consumers learned reasonably simple work arounds (the light bulb trick, no long stretches of track with one TIU output, etc.) which prevented disaster :). By comparison Legacy, while not problem free, is a piece of cake so far…
I guess that depends on your definition of recall. The update to 1.2 wasn’t mandatory, but it was recommended and encouraged. And 1.2 did require that units be sent in to do it. There was no do-it-yourself option.
http://www.lionel.com/CentralStation/NewsStand/viewrelease.cfm?newsID=158
If you were lucky enough to have the silver dots on base and remote, then you didn’t have to send the system in. But units with those silver dots were the very newest ones. Most folks that bought Legacy did so immedaitely on it’s release. So not a lot had the silver dots in both locations.
The “upgrade” itself is pretty controversial. It may have caused more problems than it cured. Many folks have reverted back to the 1.0 version by their own choice.
Dep
Neil: Good grief! I suggest you not make that statement at the OGRR forum to the Legacy owners. [:O]There are a whole bunch of them that would get pretty riled up hearing that comment. Especially the ones who paid full retail for Legacy and have had to revert back to TMCC/CAB-1 because Legacy has become unuseable or unreliable for them. Pretty hard to defend a system where the “upgrade” makes things worse instead of better for so many people. Let’s also not forget that Lionel had a long time to work on Legacy. And they had both TMCC and DCS to use as examples. While they couldn’t use the patented parts of DCS technology, I don’t believe for a second they didn’t disassemble it to see what made it tick. TMCC and DCS were pretty advanced systems for O-gauge when they came out. So it’s expected that they would have initial bugs in them. And DCS was a major jump beyond TMCC and is still competitive and functional today. As evidenced by the quilling whistle ability with the DCS handheld and the new locos MTH is making. But Legacy is more a product-improved/feature enhanced TMCC than anything revolutionary…media hype notwithstanding. It’s evolutionary, not revolutionary.
I can’t believe that Lionel can’t find a battery charger and rechargeable batteries that don’t reach superheated temperatures. And the fact that after the upgrade the batteries now draw down at an excessive rate, has to be a good indicator that there is something very wrong with the new software version.
I have no doubt that Lionel will eventually fix things. But why it’s taking so long, and why they didn’t test the upgrade thoroughly before releasing it, is a mystery.
Here’s the word from Lionel, thanks to Will Allen III of the OGR forum:
Jon Zahornacky, Lionel CTO, released this statement, which I read at the