Hi all. My topic is Legacy or just beginning with it. My wife has bought me 993 Legacy for Christmas-I just don’t get to open it 'till then. I’ve always thought that was all you needed to begin-the 993 set and your transformer. I have a KW transformer. I’m now not too sure about the idea that the 993 is all you need to get started My layout is in the track laying stage and I’ve got a single loop running with two passing sidings. I’m not worried about blocks or anything else right now. I have conventional steam locos at this point and I want to know if I have enough equipment now to run what I have remotely. I will probably go the TPCroute when the need arises but I am taking it slowly. I want to better understand how all of this equipment operates. Thanks.
Welcome. I have the Legacy and run it from post war ZW’s through fast acting breakers. I also use the TPC’s to run conventionals with the Legacy. Got to go out for a while. If no one jumps in and helps, will try to chat later and get you going. Wanted to welcome you and let you know you will be helped. Later
You can use PW supplies if you use fast acting fuses or breakers to protect your equipment. You can only use TPC’s or a modern ZW to control conventional equipment with Legacy. The original TMCC equipment would also allow control of the original Lionel PowerMasters. These devices only respond to a CAB-1 device (PowerMasters use the same CB frequencies that the CAB-1 generates)) unless you have a PowerMaster Bridge which will not be available until Feb 09.
Fuses and circuit breakers protect against fault currents that might damage your wiring or transformer. Transient voltage suppressors protect against voltage spikes that might damage your locomotive electronics.
I have a kw generator (actually two of them ,the second is used for switches) and two 2020 locos and a 2037. I also have a newer steam loco with railsounds-not command controlled. As stated I have a new Legacy controller and base. (updated). What is it I need to run one of these conventional locos around the track via the Legacy remote? How are these “fast acting breakers” used and can they be gotten at Radio Shack? Thanks to all responses.
One or two TCP’s. I have one for each mainline. Then you connect the cable to the Y cable of the Legacy. Then you program them just like an engine [except make them tracks] Mine are numbered Tack 1 and Track 2. Then you will see them come up in CAB1 mode. Turn the knob to apply power. I built my fast acting breaker box. Go to Scotts Odds and Ends. There is one there.
Thanks Chief. I ‘ll get it straight as long as I take my time… I’m gonna’ look at that breaker. I also want to see how it’s wired into the system.
Back during early layout building, this is how I ahd it laid out. Breaker box in the one being fed from ZW to TIU.
Mostly the same now with the Legacy and Command Base up on top due to interference.
I made my box from Radio Shack parts and had to order breakers.
My son got me these. I mounted them in a sheet of plywood and that was mounted as a back to what you see above. Then I plug my tracks into these.
Hope this helps. Got questions, shoot me an email.
Thanks Chief. These fuses or circuit breakers are apparently taking the place of the internal one in the transformer and are much faster acting. I’m new to the added circuit breaker and fuses also. I’ve rin conventional for about 7-8 years with no extra protection. Thanks again.
Transient voltage suppressors will protect the electronics in your modern locomotives against voltage spikes that might damage them. If you don’t use TVSs, fast circuit breakers or fuses will provide some protection, but not complete protection. If you do use TVSs, fast circuit breakers or fuses will provide no additional protection for the locomotive electronics. TVSs are small, easy to install, and extremely cheap.
Fuses and circuit breakers are meant to protect your wiring and transformers against fault currents, as from short circuits. For traditional transformers, fast circuit breakers and fuses provide no more protection than ordinary circuit breakers and introduce nuisance tripping and blowing.
Ordinary circuit breakers added to traditional multiple-output transformers, like the ZW and Z, correct the Lionel design error of using a single internal circuit breaker. You can easily find automatically-resetting circuit breakers that are functionally the same as those in the transformers at automobile parts stores.
It sounds as though with what I currently have I don’t need extra protective devices(I realize I may be wrong about this). It also sounds as though when I go to Legacy control and TPC’S I will definitely need them. I would rather just add them now so I can learn how to use them properly and on what circuits they are needed. How can I find out how to udse these devices?
Question from reading your material_ Are you indicating that I TVS’S are what I should actually use and not fuses and circuit breakers? Sounds good to me. Where can I get these TVS devices and learn how to and where to install them? Thanks-this information is really interesting. I enjoy the wiring part of this hobby. I’ve done conventional for 7-8 yrs. Again, the remote setup and Legacy are new to me and I don’t want to just slap it together and go! without knowing how it all works. Thanks again.
Amos, sent you an email.
I checked but haven’t gotten it yet. Thanks Chief I’ll continue to look.
There are two things to protect against, overcurrent and overvoltage:
The circuit breaker inside the transformer already protects against overcurrent. However, since Lionel used only one circuit breaker (except in the TW), there are various ways that transformers with more than two terminals can be connected that are not protected by the circuit breaker. Your KW’s maintenance manual says, “the circuit breaker does not protect binding post combinations A-B, B-D and C-U.” If you were to run, or worse, park a train across a gap between blocks powered by AU and BU with the controls not set to exactly the same voltage, you will draw a fault current that doesn’t go through the circuit breaker and therefore could damage your transformer or wiring. Adding separate circuit breakers (for the KW, probably rated at 10 amperes) of the type I described to the A and B outputs will fix this as far as overcurrent is concerned.
Traditional transformers like the KW, and apparently modern electronic ones too, have no protection against overvoltage. The stray inductance that exists in the secondary windings of all transformers can produce brief voltage spikes of hundreds of volts when the winding is momentarily shorted and then opened–a sequence that may occur dozens of times in any derailment. Those spikes are harmless to a traditional locomotive but can be fatal to a modern one with semiconductor electonics on board. A very effective way to stop them is to install a TVS across each circuit. You can install this two-terminal device between the transformer terminals (for the KW, one from A to U, another from B to U), between the corresponding wires anywhere that is convenient, between the terminals of the lockon, or even inside the locomotive itself. (You need only one per circuit.) It limits the voltage in the circuit to the value for which it is rated. A reasonable one for toy trains i
Amos,
When using conventional engines without Legacy, the throttles on the transformer control the voltage to the track.
When you move to the Legacy system the transformer throttles will no longer be used to control the voltage to the tracks. Instead the transformer will be set to a constant 18-20 volts and another device will be used between the transformer and the tracks to control the amount of voltage being fed to the tracks. When using conventional locomotives, the “Track Power Controller” (what people refer to as a TPC) is that device.
Good luck.
Chief, I’m sorry but I haven’t gotten your e-mail. Thanks anyway. Lionelsoni-thank you-I’m definitely interested in installing protection on the necessary circuits. Birds-you made me understand what the transformer does in the transformer and tpc setup. Thanks.The idea that I have read that the 993 setup(remote unit and base) are all you need to get started just keeps stickin’ in my head. I guess I’ll need to start looking for a tpc 300.