It occurs to me that, with the exception of junk yards and the like, all of the towns and byways that appear in the forum’s fabulous photos are pretty much litter free. No discarded newspapers, trash, crows picking at roadkill, none of that stuff. At my age, I’m very big on nostalgia. But I don’t much recall life in the steam era (or any other) being that pristine. Now, I’m aware that layout hyper-realism is a hefty extra labor, but . . .
There’s a fair amount of tongue-in-cheek in bringing up the subject. Let’s not get too serious here. But does anyone want to lightly address this strange anomaly? [:-^]
At the risk of over generalizing older photos seem to be relatively litter free, with one interesting exception and that is on electrified lines such as Pennsy, New Haven etc. I do not know whether this was over a concern about workers cleaning up in dangerous electrified territory, or just the dense populations in those areas tended to untidy. In an era when labor was cheap and unskilled labor was even cheaper, the photos I have seen of steam facilities for the Norfolk & Western always seem to be as neat and tidy as a public park, for example. And ballast was neat and tidy then too. BUT it also pays to recall that many of the historic photos we enjoy today were commercial photographs that the railroad wanted to look “nice.” That is likely why the grounds for Pennsy railroad stations in Alexander’s book of official Pennsy photos of the main lines out of Philadelphia all look pristine and swept and groomed.
Similarly old photos of factories always make the floors look “broom clean” but it is hard to say whether the floors were regularly that clean or the order went out that photos are being taken on Monday so clean up before you leave on Friday.
Somewhat off topic but a modeling buddy of mine and I often marvel at how the ROW was kept vegetation free from 1900 to about 1960, at which time deferred maintenance seemed to take over.
John, I plead guilty. Not only don’t I have litter on the ground, but all my locomotives and cars look like they just left the factory.
I’m so busy building layout things that I haven’t gotten around to weathering anything. I’m sure I will be reluctant to take that first step of making my favorite locomotives look older, dirty, and a little beat-up.
I don’t have litter, but I have old ties, rail… The usual RR stuff. If it passes the photo test then by all means have litter. What may look good from afar may not look good in a photo and what looks good in a photo may not look good from 3 feet away. I use photography to fine-tune a scene.
Having say a 1920-based layout with 1920ish structures on it that have been made to look a hundred years old when in reality they should look newish with fresh paint is a pet peeve of mine. The same goes for the type of garbage you see on a layout, often not era-appropriate. Rivet counting garbage, who da thought![(-D]
Litter is one of those details that can easily be overdone and often is. In real life, litter does not permeate scenes. The absence of litter does not detract from scenes either. Litter tends to accumulate in enclosed spaces like a fenced in area where the wind blows in but the litter can’t escape. If you want to include litter, a little goes a long way.
Without being to picky/perfect, I tried to replicate an area of downtown Las Vegas that I see almost daily, which has a lot of debris and “stuff”.
No, you will not find a Penn Central switcher in downtown Las Vegas, but you will find broken couplers, old/new ties, tires, broken pallets, etc. Some areas of my interchange yard I darkened the ballast to replicate “spillage” of some sort…
You may even find a shopping cart laying around…
Another thing to keep in mind, not everything “scales down”. An HO scale 12 oz soda can or 12 oz broken beer bottle is hardly a speck on the layout. I do have some paper and cardboard scattered around to give the impression of debris. I also use piles of dirt as markers to spot rolling stock for pick ups and drop offs.
On one of my modules there was a small yard that had weeds and trash strewn about. Even discarded coke cans. Some lady at a train show said I needed to clean that mess up. It looked unsightly. Broke my heart. I worked hard on that trash.
I have litter, trash and junk! It was the the late '60’s early '70’s through PENN CENTRAL territory, it comes mostly from the ‘‘city hogs’’. I have, but not limited to, tires (there is a bicycle tire hanging on the top of a goose neck light pole on a bridge at the end of town), stoves, refridgerators, junk cars on cinder blocks (the car is not on the ROW though), TVs, window unit air conditioners, stuffed chairs and sofas, boards, pieces of ‘‘metal banding strap’’, traffic signs, trash cans. it is not as cluttered up out in open country.
Former forum member Wolfgang Dudler once started a post entitled “Do we really have to model 1:87 bird poop?” I answered with a photo from my layout of a bridge with a seagull and a lot of seagull-like mess below him.
I also have an old disused industrial canal. It’s got an old bicycle and a shopping cart immersed in the dirty water.
Surplus railroad materials near the tracks, or in a yard/shop area do not meet my definition of “litter”. Nor does modeling a junk yard, heavy industry, etc.
I don’t model litter, crime, serious decay or neglect (except on a very occasional basis to bring context to a scene).
I have to agree with Dave Nelson, litter is not something you notice from a distance unless it is really extreem.
Years ago the idea of modeling crime came up on this forum, with some pretty strong opinions about “modeling real life”.
My response, if I modeled crime it would be a bank robbery scene with the bank robbers laying dead in the streets at the hands of the police…
Most homes and businesses take enough pride in their property to keep litter from becoming pervasive. My first job was at McDonald’s when their restaurants were just hamburger stands with no indoor seating. Too many people would just throw their hamburger and french fry wrappers onto the ground and it would end up collecting around the perimeter of the property. We would regularly send someone out on clean up duty to keep a neat appearance. I think most businesses would take a similar attitude toward litter. That’s why I wrote earlier that litter can easily be overdone and it is not necessary to create a realistic looking scene. It’s not as if litter is everywhere in the real world.
A little off-topic, but it seems to me that there is quite a bit less litter than there used to be in most areas I’ve traveled. It may just be my old-age eyesight.
Conversely, I’m seeing a lot more litter than I used to. Part of that is people who don’t properly maintain their property (most neighbourhoods seem to have at least one of that type), but I see a lot more drivers tossing refuse out of their vehicles, too.
We also have some otherwise vacant property that we maintain on a regular basis, but the litter from the winery across the street is either blown onto our land, or tossed away by those trespassing on our property which is fully signed as “Private Property”.
Formerly, we didn’t mind people walking on the property (before covid, we allowed wedding parties at the winery to use our property for photography.)
Nowadays, these people are no longer welcome due to their “entitled” and generally slovenly behaviour.
Thanks John-NYBW, Your mention of keeping in mind how wind currents distribute litter is a good guide to a natural look. The prevailing wind sure does push litter into the same corners and along the same walls and fences.
Gimme’ the gritty. Depending on the locale being depicted I feel that judiciously placed litter and debris adds to a scene. It’s the sum of the little things, and the litter and debris is a layer that tells yet another story.
I consider litter a part of what is often referred to as super detailing. If super detailing is overdone, it can become clutter. Your scenes seem to me to use these details judiciously and strikes a proper balance. At some point, I would like to add these details to my layout but I still have one last section of track to lay and several more scenes that are still in the bare plywood stage. Once I get the base scenery in on these sections, I can turn my attention to the fine detailing.
This is the odd, and not necessarily required, touch that I had in mind. The cardboard box is excellent! Is is a commercially produced product by someone or “home-brew”? And what is the little blue gizzy?
Little detail that can be easy to do is old papper. like newspaper (remember those). and cardboard. take used coffee filters and cut them up. Use a small stryene rod and paint it many random colors. cut into small pieces , dip ends in dark rust paint= equals cans. Brown construction paper cut in rectangles =- tie plates. small dia piano wire cut into small lengths =spikes. weather by eother saltwater or just get them wet so natural rust appears. Sanding the original rod helps before cutting.
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