I read the posts about LHS and prices and how much they charge. Here is FACT!
Moved to town (retirement house) there where 3 hobby shops that had all the new stuff and a LARGE STOCK of older items. Prices where higher than I thought they should be and other people felt the same SO we all ordered everything from the internet. We saved money BUT also got some BAD ITEMS (did not work or poor quality) The internet dealer stood behind and made good. When this was going on 2 of the 3 LHS CLOSED there doors. The WINNER (loser to us) used a price war and an internet sale to pu***hem out.
NOW we have 1 hobby shop that is WAY OVERPRICED that has NO CLUE as to what we need. THe 2 shops that closed had INFORMATION everytime you asked even if you bought nothing. They would TEST and item you DID NOT GET FROM them so you could send it BACK to be replaced.
So before you jump all over the LHS think! You need that spring to fix your engine for an open house and there is no LHS to get it at!
Don’t buy everything there if you do not want to but also don’t so anything that may help them close there doors, we did and where WRONG![xx(]
Your point is very valid. What you describe are 2 advantages that a LHS has. They can be a vital source of locally based information to help a modeller. They can be a vital source of spur of the moment items needed in a pinch. Unfortunately for the small business man trying to make a living at this, neither of these will pay the rent. More importantly, they are not even really able to compete in the “information” business. This forum, and others like it, provide more information, more rapidly and in greater detail and quantity than any LHS ever can. You can throw out a question at 5:00 am on a Sunday and have a workable answer before breakfast.
If you had taken 100% of your business to one of the now closed stores, would it have survived? I suspect not. For a store to be viable, it has to have a decent size consumer base, willing to purchase larger ticket items. The store has to be able to operate, recognizing the competetive reality of the web and the choices that their potential customer base has. This is a tough, tough issue and one that small retailers in all areas of business have to face head on, or dissapear, sad to say.
There can be no viable consumer base when folks get the idea that Mail Order and Internet sales is the way to go for the big items, leaving the nuts, bolts and light bulbs to the LHS. In my experience owning a shop before the Internet, I was actually less expensive than Mail Order many times when you took shipping and service into account.
That, of course, didn’t stop people from looking over someting in my stock and then buying it Mail Order, and returning to me for help in putting it together. Nor could I stop the theft that eventually put me under when I had to replace the items that were stolen when inflation was screaming upward. After all, I was a rich businessman and could easily afford the loss.
Now, there is no hobby shop within 50+ miles of here.
my LHS is closing in a few months. closest hobbyshop will be 60miles. the LHS owner is also a good friend of mine and he and I both feel very bad for the new guy’s in our area. I think the 2 keys to his demise are the internet sales and the flooding of the market by the loco producers last year. that in itself is a double edged sword. I feel if the market would of came out with a more even split of product and did’nt towt thier limited run scam than he might of made it a few more years. all that would of done is delayed the inevitable though. so be it, now we can move a little faster on his basement empire. thanks for the years of service Andy.
If you had taken 100% of your business there would it have survived? Probably not.
If three friends of yours had done the same? Probably not.
If hundreds of modellers in your area had taken 20% of their business there… hey, wait a second, maybe there is safety in numbers after all!!!
Dave
And therin lies the problem. How does the small businessman encourage 100’s of modellers to come and spend a good portion of their hobby dollars in the store, when there are so many alternatives competing for that hobby dollar?
True. Any good business owner would understand that you can’t open “small” in this business and survive. Margins would have to be low in order to compete on price (which is just as important as service), so a high sales volume would be key in order to turn a profit.
So where does the “volume” come from in such a specialized retail environment? That’s exactly why the internet/mail order businesses are doing well. They draw the 100’s of customers they need to stay in business from all over the country (and world). This volume is extremely hard to get in a local market, unless you have an unusual concentration of modelers.
Which brings us around full circle-the LHS needs to have a website and do business online. Advertising is also crucial. Here around the Detroit area, I have NEVER, in 47 years, seen a commercial on TV or heard one on the radio for train stuff. Never a newspaper ad. Never a little one page handout style flyer. They all sit back and expect the hobbyists to find them instead of going out FOR business. Then they whine and use every excuse for why they aren’t making it except the real reason-POOR BUSINESS SKILLS.
I remember a while back complaining about the uselessness (to me) of a particular issue of MRR. The response here was “if you know so much, why don’t you publish a magazine”. Being able to judge something as good or bad, useful or not, doesn’t mean you could do better yourself. Some of you claim that a particular engine or freight car line is crap, yet you aren’t opening a business to make good ones. I don’t know if I could open and operate a successful hobby shop, but based on the ones I have been in, those owners don’t know how to either. We have some not too far away that have been around for some time, yet every time I stop in, the places are empty, except for the owner and 1 guy shooting the breeze at the counter, ignoring me. They must be independently wealthy, having a hobby shop just for somewhere to hang out.
A hint to current and future hobby shop owners-Trainworld, Hobby Surplus, and Internettrains send me e-mails when they have sales and specials. They also get my business.
Over the past couple of years, I have visited Royal Oak and surrounding areas on business several times. As is my habit, I used the yellow pages to try and find LHS to visit. Either there are not many hobby shops in the northern suburbs of Detroit, or they don’t advertise evern in the YP. If it was not for someone on this list, (was it you?) I would not have found any train shops to visit!
I live in Royal Oak, MI There is only one store left nearby, it is a Ryder Hobbies and is priced high. A couple of other stores have better prices but can take a little to get to and those are Great Lakes hobby in Shelby and Merri-Seven in Livonia.
If you want to visit them, let me know and I’ll try to get you some directions or a phone number.
Merri Seven is the store I have complained about in the past. They are listed in the Walthers circular as a participating merchant for the sales, but they don’t honor it. Everything in the store is full MSRP, and the 2 times I have been there, the senior citizens that work (owners?) there don’t have a clue as to what they have. They will, however, stand at the counter and talk with another senior citizen friend of theirs while you shop.
Great Lakes Hobby is actually a pretty nice store. I think they stay in business because they look to be the “Walmart” of hobby shops. Big store, big selection of all things for all hobbies. Still, all things at MSRP while I was there. No deals or discounts off list price.
Thanks for the tips. I think Ryders is the one I have been to before. I was visiting a Dr’s office in Warren, and I seem to recall that the store was in that general direction. Anyway, I am sure to make the trip up from St. Louis again soon, so will check out the other places, even if it only to browse around.
Detroit is a major metropolitan area with major metropolitan rates for the advertising media you mention. Here in Kansas City, a much smaller (and cheaper to advertise in) market it costs AT LEAST $4000.00 PER MONTH to have any kind of presence on radio. Heaven forbid television. A LHS that spent that kind of money to market mostly to people who DO NOT PARTICIPATE in the hobby would be out of business very quickly. There isn’t that kind of profit in a LHS. When you advertise in mass media you reach all kinds of people. When your product is something as specialized as model trains 99 percent of the people who hear/view those ads will pay no attention. Throwing money away like that is indeed an example of poor business skills. That’s why none of them do it.
On the other hand an on line presence is very cheap and could probably boost busines, maybe even big time, for a LHS.
Have a good day.
Exactly - web presence is CHEAP these days. Provided there’s someone with some basic knowledge to create a page (for static pages, it’s really NOT that hard, if you can make a document in a word processor you cna make a web page), I know of places that prvodie high bandwdth static sites for a mere $1 per month. $2.50 per month gets you a database as well! These days, you can’t afford NOT to be on the internet somehow.
–Randy
Mr. Hensley: I understand your complaints - especially about the thefts, which are a part of retail (sadly) and probably a bigger difference in overall costs compared with mail order / on-line than overheads like rent payments. And I will not go and test a loco at a retail shop, then buy it online; I just can’t square that with how I would want people to do business with me. However, the reality is that if you sell your big-ticket items at full MSRP, people will go elsewhere for them. And at full MSRP, you cannot possibly be competitive with some of the REPUTABLE, LONG-ESTABLISHED mail order businesses. But you should also consider that for many years (finally there is a decent HS that while not local, is about 18 miles away, and gets much of my business), what drove me to mail order was that the LHS DID NOT HAVE the nuts, bolts, screws, couplers, styrene, etc. that I needed / wanted for “this weekend’s” project. All they wanted to sell me was the locomotives.
Out here in West Texas, anything less than 50 miles is local lol.
You post “out here in West Texas” and immediately I think of Jimmy Buffett…
“Who’s the Blonde Stranger”
“Nothing like this out here in West Texas…Galveston Bay’s a whole other world”
–Randy
No, this has nothing to do with hobby shops. So sue me.[:D]
We have three LHS in my area! Not bad when you consider this is a rural area.
I try to spread my purchases around among all three, though one is better or cheaper in certain areas, so that’s who I’ll use for those items. Or if buying quantity, I’ll split it up.
I occasionally will order something online, but that’s pretty rare. Most recent was the P2K GP9 unit with DCC and sound. I mentioned it twice to the guy I buy from the most, and he didn’t seem interested and didn’t seem to know what I was talking about, and also didn’t seem to show any interest in finding out.
One of the other guys is notoriously expensive on locos, and the third hasn’t been available for quite awhile (the store isn’t his sole nor main area of income.), so I ordered online from Caboose Hobbies in Denver.
In past years I purchased a LOT at swaps but that was when I was starting out and need to find many things that weren’t available locally since they were out of stock, and I hadn’t developed a relationship with the locals yet, either.
But I would say, if at all possible, support your local guy(s) whenever you can, even if it costs a few bucks more. It may help you (and him) out in the long run.
That’s was the major thing that killed my LHS. It was a busy place but was close to the boarder line with Detroit. Also bums would come in for the free coffee and bum everyone out.
The next LHS is 15 miles away, compared to only 3
I sold at 20 off, and carried the nuts, bolts, details, craftsman kits, Athearn. MDC, Rivarossi, AHM, Walthers, books and magazines, put out a newsletter, etc., etc.
Didn’t help. The ‘other guy’ was always cheaper even when he wasn’t. I would get, “When did you lower your price?” Of course I hadn’t. Perception is everything and I could never break the ‘Mail Order is cheaper’ idea.
It was my loss and theirs. (Yes, I lost my … well, you know.)