Say someone posts a thread asking for help about, say, installing a sound decoder in an expensive locomotive. Say another forum member gives advice, and the first member tries it, but hasn’t the skill to do it properly. And say that first member ends up destroying both the loco and the sound decoder, and is out, say, several hundred bucks.
Or, say a forum member asks about what type of glue to use to adhere foam to his layout benchwork. Say another member tells him to use a solvent-based adhesive. The result: a toxic blue and pink sludge that ruins the benchwork and the basement floor.
Independent of whether the advice was correct ot not, does the forum member offering the advice incur any sort of liability for what’s done with that advice?
I’ve always assumed that when I share techniques with folks that it’s accepted that they take that advice at their own risk. But is it spelled out somewhere, like in the forum rules?
This is not connected to any actual event… just my brain working overtime again.
Somebody slap that boy, he’s thinking too much! He should be running trains instead. [:D]
Actually, I’d wonder if advice in that situation would fall under the Good Samaritian rule. You asked for help, you were offered help in good faith, it didn’t work out, no foul, or maybe oops, your bad if they didn’t understand the advice.
On the other hand, I recall an attorney stating that when someone, even in distress, asks for help, they are asking for competent help. You can argue endlessly ( and I’m not trying to start one of “those” threads) on whether or not any advice is competent.
Its a bit like buying on Ebay…check out your seller before you buy.
We could encourage new posters with questions to ask certain people for help knowing that they will get the correct advice.
When I offer advice, I do tend to give out the “look-out-fors”. For example, in decoder installations, looking out that the motor never, ever touches the raw DCC signal (ie…an unisolated frame). Beyond that, there is not much we can do. And there are certain assumptions I have to make sometimes…did he read the decoder manual?..does he know how to solder?..can he acually remove the shell?..and so on…
We have all made mistakes in this hobby…even with good advice. When I make them, I chalk it up to experience.
but wouldnt how-to threads with pictorial essays be the best way to educate? Its enough to say how to do something, but words equiped with pictures says so much more.
Several web site communities have something like the following in their rules:
Do not knowingly post content that is false, inaccurate, or misleading.
Although we actively monitor postings, we are not responsible for the content of any posts other than our own. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any post, and if you decide to try a suggestion or to take other actions as the result of information posted in the community areas, you are acting at your own risk. Each post expresses the views of the author of that particular post, not necessarily the views of our staff, the administrator or moderator of this community, or any entity associated with this Web site.
People need to know opinions are just that, opinions. If the suggestion, gone wrong, could really ruin things, it would be best to get a second opinion, and/or try it out on something you can afford to ruin first. I’m a big fan of experimenting, mocking up, and doing a pilot of the technique first. That’s just the prudent thing to do, if you ask me.
Usually, unless you received compensation for something, you are usually held not liable.
Actual cases:
Party A gave a lawn mower to Party B. It did not run. Party B got it running, and the overspeed governor did not work, and it hit a rock which went halfway thru Party B’s leg. Party A was found not liable for the costs to fix B’s leg, or pain and suffering.
Party C gave Party D advice on offshore fishing. Party D caught a 400 pound plus Blue Marlin off the NC coast which, when they boated it, resulted in a broken arm to Party D’s guest, and the Marlin’s bill thru the console of Party D’s boat. Party D claimed Party C did not advise him how to deal with the success produced via Party C’s advice. Party D lost his case, and had to pay for his guest’s arm and fixing his own dam* boat.
It’s unfortunate how often good will is punished in our legal system.
Certainly I’d feel bad if someone tried following my advice and ruined a model. But, the legal climate being what it is in America, I was wondering about the legal aspect as well.
I might just put a disclaimer in my signature block!
This is why some doctors are reluctant to offer answers or solutions when you visit them. They are afraid of being held liable if a treatment doesn’t work. We live in a society where our woes are always someone ELSE’s fault…[V]
Gone are the days when Americans would take responsibility for their own actions…[sigh]
Nevertheless, thought I’d ask. I do get asked for and give a lot of advice on everything from scenery to tracklaying, some on the forums, and some by e-mail. I’ve often wondered if it worked out for the people asking.
Hello Dave ! Read your post and the one the other day about rivet counters and non rivet counters (boy did that one open a can of worms !) anyways in reference to liabililty on advice. Many states, mine included have “Good Samiritan laws” that are designed to protect those offering assistance to others in distress. Ie. A car wrecks and turns over, a motorist pulls over assist the driver out of his car. In the process of cutting a seat belt loose the driver falls to the bottom of the car (formally the top ) and breaks his collar bone. The injured driver is not able to sue the “samiritan” because the state recognizes that, then no one would help any one for fear of being sued. You could post a disclaimer to your penns hat just in case.
I can see where somthing could get ugly. Someone asks for help re-setting a decoder to factory defaults. Someone with malicious intent then responds by saying that putting 120VAC throught the board will reset it. Although that is a rediculous and unlikely scenario, you never know.
Of course there are for the most part “straight shooters” on this board, so you should get a good answer for most all queries.
I think Davids offer of modifying one model then sending it back to the “customer” was the wise way to do it. As I have been told by a lawyer this is no different then telling someone how to do something then they mess it up. Free advice is that free advice freely given and freely taken, used or ignored. When you take money then you can be held liable. Frankly if I had an expensive brass loco or decoder I would take it to the “professional” if I had doubts about how to do something. I spent $700 on something I would surely spend $100 more if I was unsure.
First of all, yes, I suppose the the person offering the advice could be held responsible to a certain degree just like ‘assited suicide’. But in reality, why would you spend thousands and a lot f time just to claim a few hundred dollars? It’s all about what you can get out of a lawsuit.
Secondly, these days it certainly pays to be extra careful with anything you do, free or not. I have learned through very hard ways that sometimes it is best just to mind your own business and just do everything by the book no matter what.
Lastly, I think if someone knows what they are talking about NOT just thinks what they know they are talking about, then why not shae it with others but of course another one of today’s problem is that people think they know everything and then that’s where the trouble starts and ovbiously, it could also be the other way round where people do not agree with you because they think they know more than you…
Anyway, now-a-days I just try to mind my own business whenever I can unless I do know what I am talking about. I am just sick and tired of going out of my way to help people and then they come back and stab you in the back. It’s just unfortunate that our society is getting more and more this way but that’s just life. What I hate is people getting rich knowing how to work the system. Recently a school buy from Australia got awarded a million dollars because he claims that he was bullied in school and the school didn’t preent him from been bullied and now he cannot work at all and got so fat veg out in front of the TV.
As a grandfather, I’m happy the grandsons are all over three years old. Now I can buy them birthday & Christmas presents, as all toys have warnings “not for children under 3 years old - may cause choking hazzard or have sharp edges” (like a basketball for instance). When they were under 3, I was afraid my children might sue me!![:D]
We have the good samiritan laws here too, which is a God-send to volunteer fire-fighters. An example: For legal reasons I cannot use the victims name or the name of the fire dept involved or the area in which the incident occured. A motorist ran off the road and flipped his vehicle, becoming trapped in it. The vehicle was smoking so another motorist told 911 to page out the fire department, which they did. The nearest station responded, sending two trucks and 10 fire fighters. When they reached the scene, the police and othe emergency services had not yet arrived. The front of the vehicle was in flames (electrical fire). The victim’s condition now took a back seat, as it had become life over limb. The fire was so far along that there was no way the fire fighters could get their equipment deployed in time. They had only a matter of seconds to act. They pried the victim from the vehicle, which aggravated a back injury he sustained in the wreck. He was removed from the vehicle less than 20 seconds before the gas tank went up in a fireball. The vehicle was a total loss but the person who had been in it was alive. Would you believe that this person actually took the people who saved him to court!? He claimed that had they not acted as they did, his back injury would not have been agrivated. The judge agreed with him, then looked him straight in the eye and yelled in his face “Yes, it would not have been aggravated, and you wouldn’t have to worry about it, because you would be DEAD!”. Now which would you rather have? The rest of your life with a mild disability, or occupation of a cemetary plot! The judge then threw the case out of court.
