Life Like P2K Diesel Locomotives: Part 2.

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Had a discussion with a modeler on the web. Good guy, but sometimes I see why some modelers can be turned off by other well meaning hobbyists.

He spent a few lines trashing the 1990s-early 2000s manufactured Life Like Proto 2000 locomotives and doesn’t understand why I like them so much. Comments: “They’re below standard, body contours are wrong, E-unit noses are off, doors that open are goofy, split axles, cheap mechanism, nowhere close to a Genesis model, etc, etc,.”

OK, fair enough. My point to him is simply that some us that own LL P2K units are on budgets and very satasfied with our units (in spite of some issues like cracked axles, and flimsy handrails). Imho, with detailing, weathering, and minor mechanical tweaking, LL P2Ks can be attractive smooth runners. They do have to be hard-wired for DCC. I own a fleet of P2Ks but have no plans of getting rid of any of them.

The gentleman didn’t seem to comprehend that because I grew up in the Athearn Blue Box / Atlas Yellow Box era, the LL P2K units with their so-called “goofy” openable doors, yet fairly detailed bodies are very attractive to my eyes. Add to that LL produced units in roads I model, the ACL and SCL.

He jokingly thinks that I might as well start buying 70s era Bachmann units. With a mindset like that, I usually just sigh and change the subject. Why argue? He seems to have forgotten that a few decades ago, top-notch modelers were showcased in MRR magazine that beautifully spruced up and detailed Tyco GP20 shells, Roco Model Power E-units, Atlas Yellow Boxers, and Athearn BB “wide body” locomotives!

While wanting accuracy, I’m willing (and I think some others are too) to live with some minor dimensiona

2

For me, the most important part of the model railroad is using your imagination and modeling what you want. I have found I have the most fun running locomotives that are not the most perfectly detailed (but detailed enough for me!). Some of my favorite locomotives include the current EMD SW1 from Walthers Mainline, the Bachmann S-4, the Atlas Trainline RS-32, and the current Athearn GP40-2. That is what I like and that is what I run.

On the other hand, I really like Kadee ready to run freight cars because they are made here in the states and are great to look at. At the same time, I have a good selection of the Walthers Mainline and Athearn RTR freight cars.

I remember the LL Proto 2000 engines as really great looking locomotives and reasonably priced. If they bring you enjoyment then you have selected the perfect locomotives!

3

Antonio Most of my engines are Proto 1000 and 2000’s and I am fine with them. Yes, the cracked gears sucks rail spikes but the fix is not to bad. Some of my PK E6’s are decoder ready along with my beloved B&O SD 7 and 9’s. Only Proto engines I have had motor problems with and been PK 1 F units. To be fair I ran the heck out of them and way over worked them.

I all so like the Bachmann DCC ready engines, I am not into high details leves. Now if they put a better decoder in them I have more of them.

Cuda Ken

4

I have a few Proto 2000 locomotives:

  • (3) Alco S1 switchers
  • (1) EMD F3
  • (1) EMD SW8 switcher
  • (4) FM H10-44 switcher
  • (2) Lima 0-8-0 switchers

They’re all very nicely detailed and are some of my smoothest running locomotives I have in my roster. The only one that’s been a dog is the SW8.

I’m going to guess that this gentleman you talked to, Antonio, is a big Athearn fan, which I am not. I’ve had one Athearn steamer and two diesels. While they were nicely detailed, mechanically they were so-so-to-bad. [tdn]

I’ll take a less detailed (perfect) shell over an exquisitely detailed shell that doesn’t run worth a beans any day of the week. Oh, and none of my Proto 2000s ever suffered from the cracked gear issue.

Tom

5

Let’s look at what I own-please no heart attacks.

Athearn BB GP7s,GP35s,SW7s,SW1500,SW1000,GP38-2,GP40-2,GP50 and two SD45s lettered for Family Lines.

Athearn RTR SW1500 GP38-2s,GP40-2 and two GP60Ms lettered for CR.

Athearn/Genesis DCC/Sound GP9. Runs ok. Bulbs are blown.

Atlas Classic,Atlas/Kato and Atlas/Roco.

Life Like P2K SW8, GP7/9s,GP38-2s

One Kato GP35.

Bachmann Alco S4 and 2 GE 70 Tonners.

All of those locomotives meets the standards that pleases me and I’m happy…

6

I have one PK2 (GP7) on my roster. It was recently purchased from ebay for a bargain price, not to mention I just flat out liked it. After a good cleaning of the dried up factory lube, I simply added some light gear oil to the boxes, then added a simple speed decoder and this unit has become my new workhorse. It is without question the most quiet and smoothest running unit I have.

I also purchased a genesis (GP7) from a LHS. IT has factory DCC and sound, is a very nice looking model with nice paint, nice details, and good sound. It is NOT a workhorse. The operation is very herky-jerky, stalls quite repeatedly, resets itself and changes speed. It tends to sit on sidings and idle more than it works. For the money I paid for the genesis vs. what I paid for the ebay unit, I will continue looking for P2K units from webville.

Rich

7

I have the LL SD50’s SD60’s and SD60M’s they are my best Protos the LL GP60’s and LL GP38-2’s not so good.

8

I have 4 of those( 2 SCL and Two Seaboard System) and they don’t like mu’ing together at all,other then that they are smooth runners.

Thankfully I ran them solo on my former ISL and love their smooth slow switching speed.

9

The P2K’s in general are my most reliable performers along with my ATLAS units. I have just finnished upgrading my P2K SW’s with new LokSound decoders and the Tony’s Sugar Cube speakers in the cab. The fidelity to the prototype of these SW’s are phenominal. Yes they are hardwired and yes the early Geeps have to have new axles installed because of the gear cracking. Small price to pay given the low cost of these units, their great looks and performance. Chris

10

My experience with these is similar to Brakie’s. I have several of the early Geep’s and once I got past the axle gear problem they mostly did ok. They do not want to MU like my Atlas GP’s and tend to “hunt” and lag when operating together. Some responded well to tweaking and some did not. A couple run smoothly enough for yard service and a couple were lost causes so I gutted them and they became dummies in the middle of 3 unit consists. (maybe I give up too easily)

The SW’s are great runners but could use a little more traction so they wind up with the light industry or utility jobs. When MU’d, they make good transfer power.

Early E-8’s are great in passenger service, but, I don’t run a lot of that anyway.

I was spoiled early on by Kato NW-2’s and Atlas GP 7’s. These, along with the early Atlas S-2’s and RS-2’s sort of became my bench mark for 1st gen. diesels on my layout.

Fortunately, I have the space to operate long trains and that can be a blessing as well as a curse. A lot of nice locomotives came along later that did not pull like the above mentioned ones, I was kind of let down.

At least we are pass the days of the Athearn rubber band drive and the Varney diesels with the egg shaped wheels. Back then, you really had to love this hobby to stay in it very long. (Hobbytown of Boston was my salvation)

Be happy in your work.

Charlie

11

In the 1980s there were articles where the author seemed to turn up his nose at anyone who was not modeling with brass. At the time, my thinking was there was nothing wrong with Athearn BB, and how could us normal modelers afford brass? It still is, with P1K, P2K and a few others added to the mix. At a train show I remember a couple of guys discssing the then new Bachmann Spectrum locos, and saying that all Bachmann was junk. Elitists and rivet counters do have their place in the hobby; however, the rest of us do not have to listen to them.

12

Charlie,Those Hobbytowns ran as good as the builder-well my pappy said that when I built my first Hobbytown RS-3 at 10 years old under his supervision.

I followed up with one more RS-3s and a RSD4/5 and three Hobbytown drives for Athearn’s GP7. Needless to say that was a lot of grass cutting and chores for my Aunts and Uncles still life was good.

I wish I could spend a afternoon switching with one of those Hobbytown RS-3s.

13

My Ebay Proto 2000 Undec GP7 just arrived on Saturday. The seller replaced the gears, though it otherwise looks NIB. Not a lot of room for DCC & sound in there.

I have yet to do my first DCC conversion and the recent discussion from those who don’t like sound has be uncertain as to which way to proceed.

14

As asking/opening bid prices for early P2K GPs continue to climb on eBay, I am surprised how many sellers have no idea about the cracked axle gear problem. I recently bought a “new” undecorated GP18, for a fair price. I informed the seller of the cracked gears and explained the repair procedure. I didn’t ask for a partial refund, but he could have offered.

15

Although I myself now prefer brass steam, partly due to issues experienced with other rtr steam, the Proto 2000 engines were always wonderful for me.

By shear dumb luck I avoided purchasing any of the ones that had issues with gear cracking, so I never experienced a single LL/P2K failure of a diesel (lone steam exception being the USRA heavy 2-10-2). All the other P2K engines I owned ran very well, and just ran and ran.

The P2K Alco PA’s just ran great, especially for the money. I can’t complain about them.

I loved the RS-27 the best–they have about the best handrails anyone has ever done in HO. The fine delrin handrails can be handled and really don’t break unless totally abused.

My only real complaint is I wished the ICG Proto engines like the GP38-2 had a little bit less “washed out” appearance.

Also–some folks have comparatively massive rosters of diesels. I have only a modest layout, so having a couple brass steam engines on hand does not make me rich by any stretch, or some kind of rivet counter snob. I just at this point prefer something a little bit different from what everyone else can easily obtain–and I have had gear failures, etc. with the other guys’ rtr HO steam power.

John

16

Selective memory perhaps. I was surprised my seller not only mentioned it but fixed it. That actually may have hurt the bidding. Mine was $41 before shipping

17

Rich, Check out this thread. Especially the advice that Randy offers. I had a Genesis F3B and a GP15 with the same issues. This is the problem and takes about 10 minutes to fix. Once I did it I have never had anything but smooth running from both sound loco’s. http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/t/228382.aspx SB

18

I have two NS and two CSX like to run them together but have to run them solo that is why i don’t like them.

19

I personally hope people keep bringing those “awful” P2K geeps to local swap meets and selling them for about $30-40 a pop. A good clean-out, new axle gears, $10 of detail parts, and I’m in business. Most of the detail complaints have been debunked.

20

I have several LL P2Ks: 2-PAs, 2-E-8s, 2-GP-30s, an 0-8-0, an FA/FB. All are DCC and run very well. I had to replace some axle gears on the GPs and the FA/FB, but was able to consist those pairs with no trouble (TCS decoders).

Dante

P.S. The FA/FB and the 0-8-0 were purchased NIB, but all others were like new on EBay.