Please don’t take this as me being annoying or whining just because the rarest locomotive ever isn’t in full production but I have been looking at locomotives and it seems that manufacturers only produce a few select locomotives and usually they’re ones that are already made by other companies. Does anyone else feel this way?
Some locomotives are more popular than others. So, if you’re a company that’s going to make a new steam model, will you sell more Big Boys or more KCS 4-8-4’s? And Big Boys have already been made by just about everyone.
Ed
Well, more railroads had 2-8-0, 2-8-2, 4-6-2, etc… Models than a 4-4-4-4 Pennsy unit.
More railroads with similar models, more available to sell to more modeler’s.
Simple economics.
Ubiquitious models of locomotives sell; unique or lesser known (aka rare) locomotives, not so much. As Rick correctly stated, it’s simple economics for manufacturers. Yea, I’d love to see an NYC H-10a 2-8-2 Mike in plastic but that ain’t gonna happen. It’s just a reality of MRRing…
Tom
So SP AC-9s wouldn’t be popular?
I would think doing a prevalent BUT not overdone locomotive would stand to gain more profit because there’s less competition.
There’s a LOT of detail to that particular model, Steven. And even a plastic version of it is going to easily cost in the $700-$800 range.
Would you want a VERY stripped down version of it and add your own details to save cost? Most modelers these days don’t want that; they want a model with all the bells and whistles - literally and figuratively.
I wouldn’t buy or have an interest in an SP AC-9 because I don’t model the SP. And I think it would have limited appeal - even with SP modelers. If you can convince the likes of BLI, Walthers, or MTH to design and manufacture one for you - then go for it. Contact them and see what they have to say.
The reality of it is that when all the costs are added up for a potential locomotive project to be released, the design, tool work, molds, painting, decals, advertising, etc. can easily run into 6-, even 7-figures - if the amount of units is large enough. Manufacturers have to recoup those cost or they lose money on the project and none of them are in the philanthropic business the last time I checked.
Tom
Well, the OP is right. The current selection of steam models is poor.
Not only because of the focus on large, famous, highly publicized locos like Big Boys, but because of limited production, preorder manufacturing cycles.
Just 15 yeares ago Bachmann Spectrum offered a long list of wheel arrangements and road names - yes a few were less than accurate for the roads lettered, but that is no worse than the TOTALY generic 2-8-2’s, 4-6-2’s and 2-8-0’s the Broadway is selling today in long list of roadnames with NO EFFORT to be correct on even the simplest details they could easily change.
And worse is the silly one-upsmanship between BLI and MTH over Big Boys and the like.
I’ll bet, if you put me in charge of product developement at any of those companies I could make reasonably correct models of a lot of stuff they think won’t sell, and make money with it.
Here is the real problem. You have to be willing to invest in the future of the hobby. You have to put the product out there in a way that is is accessable.
Pre orders are not “accessable” to new people in the hobby. What new excited person wants to wait months or years for a locomotive?
Preorders may be saving the manufacturers (or not), but I think it is hurting the growth ofthe hobby.
I have said this before - if I did not already own most of the train I want, if I was getting into this hobby in a serious way (with the kind of goals I have in this hobby now), I simply would not get in this hobby.
The process of searching for and aquiring the desired/necessary models would turn me off. I hate the “hunt”. That is a hobby all its own, not one that I want to be in.
I want to buy model trains and build a model layout. Not search Ebay or train shows for stuff no longer made.
But I am lucky, over the last 50 years I have been able to buy what I needed when it was available and now have most everything I want.
One last point, w
USRA Light Mikados and Pacifics will always sell.
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If you are going to expend the resources to make the models you better be able to sell them. It is a safer bet to bring out a new version, better running, more details, of a popular model than to take chances in new territories.
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-Kevin
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But one day we’ll all sit back and say I have enough Big Boys and wham no more sales! I model a proto freelanced railroad that basically is the combination of the SP, WP, and NP into one system with trackage rights all the way to the Mississippi. Therefore do I run every train behind a GS-4, AC-11, or MT-4? Of course not I want to run a plethora of wheel arrangements, challengers, cabforwards, overlands, northerns, yellowstones, and every other locomotive that was prevalent on my railroads parent roads. I’m just saying you can’t tell me that a well priced SP locomotive would not sell I’m sure even those who just like western US railroads would probably buy one. I think it’s more of the cows following the rest of the herd the manufacturers only make select models and thats what you have to buy. It’s obvious with all the Gevos, ACes, and Big Boys out there.
Athearn offered a veranda turbine for a while and now it’s discontinued. Or the DDA40X same thing. I hope the big box manufacturers stop in on this forum occasionally and they read this because the customer is always right.
While the selection may be poor in HO, it’s almost non existant in S. New steam locomotives with scale wheels (as opposed to AF wheels) are limited to a 4-8-4, a few end-of-run 4-6-2’s, and whatever the latest River Raisin brass model is. Conversion is possible but difficult since there is no one offering driver wheel sets that I know of, plus the AF locomotives tend to be a little too toy like for my taste,
Paul
That was true 15-20 years ago, not any more. The NEED for a “better” Big Boy is WAY PAST and point of deminishing return.
Sheldon
What Sheldon said.
I would like to see some quality locomotives of the Ten Wheeler, Prairie, Twelve Wheeler, Consolidation and similar types. And no, IHC does not fit my definition of “quality,” I’m afraid. Bachmann does - sometimes, but last time I checked them out (several years ago, admittedly), they were pretty hit and miss.
I wouldn’t mind generic versions of these small-to-medium steamers. I can customize them to more closely match my prototype, should I get the urge.
I would also be willing to pay several c-notes for decent looking and running versions of these locos.
Big Mikados, Decapods and articulateds are great, and I own several. But for branchline railroading they’re a bit of overkill. A low-drivered Pacific or a medium Consolidation looks much better and is more than adequate for such uses.
Well said. I experienced this with a recent return to having a layout after some years of not having space. During the years between layouts, I hadn’t been active in populating my roster, which included an era change, as I figured I would just buy stuff when I had the space again. I found out that was much easier said than done and I had to adjust my plans due to the limited availability of steam. (Don’t really have the time or skills to repaint/reletter equipment) I don’t really care if the model is spot on to a prototype. Just give me a reasonable looking 2-8-2, 4-6-2, etc lettered for my chosen road. I will freely admit that I am luckier than some as my prototype is somewhat popular, but if I were starting over completely, i would be tempted to model the Pennsylvania as that seems like the only road with steam models available all over the place.
If BLI ever announces that they’re taking reservations for a PRR BP-20, MTH will have theirs on shelves three weeks later.
I have a freind who would love a yellowstone painted for the DMIR, except he doesn’t know if his basement is big enough for the needed radius.
So, Steven, I guess you’ve scrapped the “cascadenorthernrr” and moved on?
Mike.
The only loco I ever pre ordered was my first PCM Reading T1. ANd that was more or less an informal preorder with a guy who was at all the locl train shows and I bought many things from in the past. People need to stop letting emotions rule their purchases - I have since purchased THREE MORE of the same loco, paying the “non sound” price or less for the sound version.
How long ago did Atlas release the Trainmaster with QSI sound in the original Reading pullman green? It was long before I bought the one I did, getting it for less than the price of the plain DC model at release. Pateince, grasshopper. All this “limited production” stuff ALWAYS shows up later on on ebay, often at reduced prices. Walthers Plymouth switchers? Still available on eBay.
–Randy
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The customer is rarely right. Customers say they want certain things, but will not pay for them.
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Everybody says they want a car with great gas mileage, but how many Chevrolet Sparks do you see on the road compared to Chevrolet Tahoes? Every automobile consumer wants more reliability, but they still buy BMW and Mercedes Benz over Toyota if they have the money.
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I am talking about overall groups here, not individual consumers. Sure, there are a few familys with $200,000.00 plus incomes with a Camry in the driveway, but not many. Especially if their neighbor just bought a “Beemer.”
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The manufacturers need to figure out what large groups of consumers will actually buy, not what they say is wanted. Remember Life-Like’s disaster with the Mather boxcar?
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You never want an argument with the customer, but if the customer was always right then EVERY car would ALWAYS be under warranty. Every problem would be easy to diagnose if you just put a “competent” technician on the job. They never abused the vehicle and followed all prescribed maintenance at the proper interval. All parts would be readily available somewhere. And finally, their cousin Mitch would actually be a “Master Technician.”
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Our manufacturers are always fighting a struggle to stay in the black. They know a lot more about this business than we do. It is naive in the worst way to think any of us could run a successful hobby manufacturing company. Just like it is ridiculous that all customers in an Auto Dealership could run a Service Department better than the Service Manager does.
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Limited runs, revervations, and pre-orders all let manufacturers have a better shot at making a product that will ammortize the development costs quickly. These also get Model Railroaders to get off of their wallets and spend some cash.
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If you want to model certain railroads in the late steam / transition era, you can do it reasonably well. There seems to be quite a few New York Central, Pennsylvania, Norfolk & Western, Santa Fe, Union Pacific, and Southern Pacific late (1920 or later) steam engines, plus D&RGW narrow gauge available.
If you want to model another railroad, or a period before 1920, it becomes more hit-and-miss. If you want to model Great Northern, there are one or two steam engines available that are accurate (or at least reasonably accurate) but you’re probably going to have to save your money to get brass. As to time, a good c.1900 4-6-0 and 2-8-0 with Stephenson valve gear would be nice for the earlier modelers…plus many of these engines lasted into the transition era.
Steven
I’m a SP nut from the ground up and the AC-9 is one of my favorite locomotives along with the AC-12s. I was fortunate enough when I was 14 years old to ride in 3807. Our next door neighbor was the El Paso SP Yard Super and he arranged for me to ride in the cab of both 3807 and 4287 for my 14th birthday.
It became a must to have an HO scale AC-9 on my layout. I couldn’t and still can’t afford a AC-9 on eBay so I did the next best thing. I kitbashed a clunker Rivarossi AC-12 off eBay into a Mel AC-9. It turned out so good I did two more.
They aren’t perfect but close enough for me. All three run very nice on DC or DCC and on DCC the Soundtraxx decoder sounds terrific. One has a Faulhaber 2224RS motor and the o
I just don’t see how steam engines could negotiate my subway tunnels. Yes, the first elevated trains were steam powered with the famus Fourney locomotives, but that was a long - long time ago.
A challenger under Broadway–I just don’t think so.
ROAR