"Limited" space vs. 4X8's

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

quote “Do to space limitations, I have 18” HO curves, and have to use Atlas snap switches".

No you don’t. It’s just an excuse !

A 4’X8’ layout takes up a whole room, because you have to walk around it. With only 3’ of ‘aisle’, it occupies 10’x16 of floor space, and room enough for only two people to sqeeze by each other. Spare bedrooms are 10X10 or 10X12.

You’re a sole operator and no onlookers? OK, a doorway is 2.5’ so your layout occupies 9’x13’ and addicted to a 4x8 plywood board you cannot reach across.

WHY? A 3/4" plywood board can be found at any lumber store, and can be supprted by saw-horses or 4 legs, in its simplest form, and beats an oval around a Xmas tree.

In most midwest homes it is relegated to the basement - along with other unwanted storage items. A man’s home is his Castle, right? (mostly in the basement).

Tear down? Forget it! Now one can ‘play’ year around - except when the lawn needs mowing.

Penalties of a 4X8: All trackage has to fit the board. All curves have to 22"r or less. Equipment puchases have limitations + modern RR equipment you see and want doesn’t fit.

My first layout had 18" radius curves, but the rolling stock available was mostly 40’ - 50’ cars. Subseqently, I went to 36", then 46"-48". Now I use the room corners and can go 34" to 46" easily.

2

So soon. Another 4x8 pro/con discussion??!!

Mark

3

Perhaps it would be easier to not think in terms of what space you don’t have and accept the space you do. All model railroad space is limited, what you do within those limits is what matters.

4

I’m kind of new to the hobby, but I really don’t understand the issue.

What does it matter what size the modeler uses, as long as he’s modeling, and more importantly, happy with his hobby?

Maybe, like in my case, the 4x8 is an introduction to the hobby. If I hadn’t built it, I’d still be in the armchair, but at least with it i can try things, and operate trains. Maybe for other’s, it is the finale.

But again, what does it matter if you put the peanut butter on the top or the bottom of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich? It’s still a PBJ (and damn good in my opinion).

Cheers.

5

Hi Don,

Since those are my words, I should weigh in here I guess.I would love LOVE LOVE to have a 4 x 8!!!

There is no space! I have no basement, no garage, and live in a mobile home park.

My layout is 3.5’x 5.2’. It is on wheels so it can be moved around. Two sides are in a corner. There is 18" on one side and 2’ on the other. Doorway is a 30" x 30" cube of space. The layout CANNOT be attached to the/in the two “alleyways”, and I need to get around the layout to the window a/c:

_____window a/c

! <–18"—> ! layout !

! ! &nb

6

I feel the same way. Yes, this month’s issue of MR shows you how to cut up a 4x8 to make alternate plans, including an around-the-room plan. But, for most of us, it’s not the piece of lumber (or foam) which decided what our layout will look like. It’s more often the shape of the room, or of the portion of the room that we’re given. Yeah, I’ve got a 24x24 foot room, but I have to share it with the rest of the family, so I’ve got a 5x12 foot moveable table, and even that much causes some resentment.

I could use 28-inch curves, if I wanted an oval that comes to the edge of the table on both sides. Instead, though, I have 18-inch curves so that the trains don’t have to be on the edge, and can instead run behind some scenery, which is more interesting to me. Yeah, I can’t run those modern diesels, Big Boys or long passenger cars, but my GP-9’s work fine and look OK on my layout.

7

Assuming we need to rehash this.

Let’s start by getting the space requirement right. A 4x8 layout with a comfortable 3’ aisle in front and 2’ access along one end requires 7’x10’. This is achieved by putting the layout on wheels and rolling it out from the wall when construction/maintenance is required.

With a 4x8, access to the room requires no duckunder or gate or dropdown or lift up. Access to closets and windows is also maintained.

A 4x8 costs less than around the room. There is less square footage and simpler construction.

If more space is available, a bigger table top allowing a larger radius can be built. A 10x16 space would allow a 2 sheets of plywood layout 5’4" x 12’ layout to be built with a 2’8" operating aisle and a 2’ maintenance aisle along the ends and the back - no wheels required, although you can use wheels to fit it into a smaller space. A 9x12 room could allow a 6x10 layout on wheels with up to a 34’ radius curve on the outside.

While an around the walls layout maybe the best choice for some, the 4x8 or other tabletop may be better for others. A hybrid arrangement is yet another choice that may work well.

Enjoy

Paul

8

Some people don’t have big budgets. Rather than get a bunch of shoddy equipment for a big layout, you can focus on much better equipment on a small layout. That’s my plan. A pair of RS3ms, a couple coaches, and some rolling stock on a 5x10ish layout… Its easier to focus details IMHO, especially when your trying to get top notch stuff, on a teenagers budget…

9

Before i found out that my wife was pregnant I was building John Olson’s 4x8 Jerome and Southwestern. I barely got the chance to start on the scenery but it was a good jumping off point for learning how to lay track, wire, operate…etc. I also realized the I don’t want another 4x8 because of the associated limitations, but I feel that as long as someone has foundation of some sort to put some track on and THEY are happy with it, then by all means let them do what they want.

10

It seems to me the 4x8 works very well for most modelers. I have built 2x10 and 4x8 and am now on to my two wall lake port terminal which will be 10x10 (2 1/2 feet wide). I built the 4x8 because the NMRA required at least that size to get Achievement Award for scenery. I found that I could do a lot with it with the right track plan. About all I couldn’t do was run very large equipment on it. Even before that, I just built models without a layout.

Isn’t the important thing to be building? I don’t think it matters what size the thing is ( unlike in some other areas of life!). Just the enjoyment, the happiness it provides.

I just read that the famous John Allen’s first layout was 3 feet 7 inches by 6 feet 8 inches. If it was good enough for the master…

11

Tsk! Reality gets in the way of sooooooooooooo many things. Tight budgets, tight space, tight time…

The nice thing about this hobby is that it can accommodate the huge majority of us somehow. The trick, and the pleasant surprise, is to find out how. Just takes some thinking, some sharing of ideas, some good will…and some determination.

I saw recently where an avid modeller built a small scale layout in a brief case. I would not be happy with such a thing in my current circumstances, but I am pretty sure I’d be glad to have what he has were I in his shoes.

Did I say this hobby can accommodate the huge majority of us somewhow? And the best part about it all is that it doesn’t require the approval of a single other person.

12

Space…the final frontier. These are the voyages of the hobby you’ve chosen. It’s neverending mission, to entertain, enlighten, enjoy, challenge and distract.

The storage comment in the OP was a strong consideration when calculating my 6x20 space. That, and I’m building a 4x8 to amuse the boys while the O scale train is awaiting repairs.

13

I’ve always wondered why some modelers believe that the only reason someone uses a 4 x 8 is because its assumed that the person can’t saw lumber, but seems to be able to lay track, wire it, assembly structures and scenery. Personally I’m do not understand why some modelers get so upset about 4 x 8’s ???

14

Building an ‘Outdoor’ RR ‘Indoors’ is a problem. It takes planning - or you can acquire a published beginners plan and a sheet of plywood.

TRUTHES THAT ARE SELF- EVIDENT: (1)Loops take up room, (2)Switching layouts require continuous use of your brain (How do we get car A to point B?). & (3)SOME like to run in circles.

‘Blessed are they than run in circles’, for we shall call them ''WHEELS" . (old saying).

4x8’s are simple - which is their primary virtue, but “space” and “cost” are generally the claims. There are exceptions to every generality, of course, but 4x8’s waste space where P/P’s and Switching layout’s don’t, and many ‘low cost’ 4X8’s sport $400 ENGINES.

Everyone HAS SOME limitation. It’s HOW we use it. I memember a senior citizen living with his daughter in So. Cal. with NO space. He had a 3’ test track and a kit built Mother Hubbard running back and forth. I was impressed.

I hold no grudge to those living in apartments (there is N gauge, Z, and TT), or animosity for those on tight budgets (I live on Soc. Security). It seems to me that there are people building 4X8’s in basements, buying $300 engines, and $50 cars, using income and space limitations as a ‘cover’ for effort.

15

With all due respect, who cares if someone wants to run $400 locos on a layout of any size. I was unaware that there was a dollar maximum for motive power to be used on a minimum sized layout. An argument like that, not that it’s what you’re suggesting, could take the wind right out of the sails for folks who like collecting models. And even if they are, well, at least it’s running, and it’s how that modeler chooses to use it.

Could be worse in some ways. You could have a 400ft main line, and not have any money left to buy engines or rolling stock.

Besides who knows, maybe in your example with the 3’ test track, that gentlemen actually had a fancy pants brass import for the camelback.

Shoot me for being a newbie, but I still don’t understand the argument/complaint.

Cheers!

16

[quote user=“Don Gibson”]

quote “Do to space limitations, I have 18” HO curves, and have to use Atlas snap switches".

No you don’t. It’s an excuses!

A 4’X8’ layout takes up a whole room, because you have to walk around it. With only 3’ of ‘aisle’, it occupies 10’x16 of floor space, and room enough for only two people to sqeeze by each other. Spare bedrooms are 10X10 or 10X12.

Our 4x8 took up exactly 4 feet by 8 feet. It sits in a 10 x 14 foot room, which ALSO includes 14 feet of space allocated for floor to ceiling bookshelves, AND the MAIN entry in and out of the house. The layout was expanded during phase two construction, and now occupies 5 feet by 14 feet, in THAT SAME 10 x 14 room which STILL allocates 14 feet for floor to ceiling bookshelves AND the main entry in and out of the house.

Before the move to the present location, the 4x8 layout was finish framed, track laid and finished wired, in a space 6 feet by 10.

10x16?

Are ye daft?

ALL sides are easily accessible in under 30 seconds, by one person, without real effort, it rolls VERY easily on 2" castors on carpet.

You’re a sole operator and no onlookers? OK, a doorway is 2.5’ so your layout occupies 9’x13’ and addicted to a 4x8 plywood board you cannot reach across.

I reach across our 4x8 EVERY SINGLE day. I built hard points to lean on into the benchwork for precisely this reason. Need to reach across, no problem, even with three vertebra crushed in a construction accident. Need to wor

17

Because, in the overwhelming majority of situations, the modeler chose the 4x8 sheet of plywood for no good reason. They just thought that was what they were “supposed to do.” The problem with that is, the 4x8 sheet is a terrible waste of space.

I absolutely despise the “I don’t have space for anything but a 4x8” argument; it’s awfully convenient, don’t you think, that you just happen to have the exact space required for a standard sheet of plywood? (If plywood came in 3x7 or 5x9 sheets, would you just happen to have exactly THAT space?) If you can fit a large rectangle into the room, you can fit a better shape into the same space.

There are lot of better forms for a model railroad that are more user-friendly and allow for more train-running, not to mention operation.

18

Maybe we are a nation of whinners.

If you want to be a model railroader you will find the space to at least do something. Given the materials and all of the possibilities that spoken about and written about, you can always have some kind of a layout. Besides, G, O and HO aren’t onl way to go about either. Today we have N and even Z scales so one can have a nice layou

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I have to agree with you there. It’s a hobby afterall. The main point really is to enjoy doing something other than work or sleep or eat with one’s spare time. And I am sure many of us would rather be working on our hobby rather than going to that dreary job where we do the same thing day after day after day.

So if the 4 x 8 gives you what you want out of your hobby, do it and don’t listent othose who say you can’t have fun unless you have several thousand square feet to run a consist of Big Boys hauling 1,000 cars from one end of the block to the other. I exagerate if course but one only has to please him or herself here because anything else is turning a hobby into a job. And once you do that, you are going get tired of the hobby rather quickly.

Irv

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John Allen started with a 4x6, now see what…8-D

no question the 4x8 is a quick setup getup and go thing, but you can make an interesting layout on it, but I have been there, done it. Why I do shelf modules and around the room.

cheers, enjoy the hobby