Linn Westcott and realistic control.

[rrinker]

Very true - it IS that simple. You can connect Blunt’s throttle to the jump port on a Zephyr/Zephyr Xtra. Just turn off the pulse. The loco controlled by that throttle will behave just as a DC loco controlled by that throttle, assuming momentum effects are nto enabled in the decoder. Although some of the interactions might be useful - particularly on braking, hit the air, train doesn’t slow down right away because the decoder has momemtum enabled.

–Randy

[trainnut1250]

. The EFFECT of it was that as you apply the brake, the loco slows but not as fast as it would if the throttle was closed first, and if you let off the brake, the loco will speed back up.

–Randy

This is exactly how the Tsunami brake works. Neat effect.

Guy

[rrebell]

I would like to comment on the fact that with the proper flywheels on a diesel, mine don’t stop on a dime, even at emergency off.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

That’s exactly why I prefer the encoder throttles over the potentiometer ones. Since it can take several truns to go from stop to full speed, I can very easily accelerate and decelerate in a prototypical fashion, no jackrabiits, no slamming on the brakes. And I don;t have to fiddle with the decoder settings. I do typically put a little momentum in my locos - basically the least common denominator, mainly, light loco moves. If I would just crank open the throttle with a train, it would be too fast to be realistic. But since th encoder makes tiny little steps, I can run up to speed very slowly, simulating the load of that train.

It also comes in handy with sound - though I know this doesn’t appeal to you, with many sound decoders, the momentum controls the ‘loading’ effect on the prime mover. There, it needs more momentum programmed in, simulating the heavy load, which you can bypass by slowly opening the throttle. For a heavy train - crank open the throttle, prime mover loads up, loco begins just creeping. You can throttle back to reduce the prime mover, or else if the throttle is at the speed you want anyway, as the loco reaches that speed, the prime mover will settle down. All pretty neat and effective as long as you don;t have the thing cranked up to toy train sound volumes.

Consider making that Strasburg trip around the July 4th week - I’ll be there with the RCT&HS big modular layout in the museum.

–Randy

There is no question that the encoder wheel and the push button are similar in that regard.

On the Train Engineer, even if you press and hold the excel or decel button, there is a fixed rate of change that is not instant.

My only problem with encoder wheels is more of a sense of needing a display, to know how much I have changed it. As implemented by Digitrax, th

[CSX_Robert]

My only problem with encoder wheels is more of a sense of needing a display, to know how much I have changed it. As implemented by Digitrax, the knob is uncomfortably small and the display hard to read. Maybe too, the Train Engineer has the “option” of the “emergency” button if you feel you need to stop in hurry, the encoder wheel lacks that option.

Additionally, the push button approach is much easier to operate with one hand and no eyes on the throttle…

With Digitrax’s encoder equipped throttles, you can also increase and decrease speed with pushbuttons, which is what I do when switching(with one hand and without looking at the throttle), and they also have an emergency stop button.

[ATLANTIC_CENTRAL]

My only problem with encoder wheels is more of a sense of needing a display, to know how much I have changed it. As implemented by Digitrax, the knob is uncomfortably small and the display hard to read. Maybe too, the Train Engineer has the “option” of the “emergency” button if you feel you need to stop in hurry, the encoder wheel lacks that option.

Additionally, the push button approach is much easier to operate with one hand and no eyes on the throttle…

With Digitrax’s encoder equipped throttles, you can also increase and decrease speed with pushbuttons, which is what I do when switching(with one hand and without looking at the throttle), and they also have an emergency stop button.

But the problem is there are TOO many buttons (32 if I recall) and they are TOO small for my chubby fingers.

My Aristo Train Engineer throttles have five BIG buttons that are easily identified by feel alone -

FASTER - a bar at the top

SLOWER - a bar below “FASTER”

EAST and WEST - side by side

EMERGENCY - a bar at the the bottom

All easily pressed with my thumb as I hold the throttle in one hand.

I use Digitrax throttles all time at a number friends layouts, I have yet to really get use to them after a number years of operating sessions in our Round Robin.

If i must use a Digitrax throttle, I prefer the UT4R, it is the least objectionable of the bunch.

Sheldon

[rrebell]

The only problem I have with the train engineer is sometimes I hit the stop button by mistake, smaller button would have suited me just fine.

[rrinker]

The layout was a Timonium, but I wasn’t. I usually go to that show, but I was unsure of when my GF’s surgery was going ot be and wasn;t able to prepare with a room and so forth.

I guess it does take getting used to, but I quickly developed the method of using my DT400 throttle held down at my side, never looking at it after selecting a loco. I can hold it on one hand, roll the throttle encoder with a thumb, and click it to reverse, leaving my other hand free to uncouple cars and operate ground throws when switching.

I hate to think how big they’d have to make the thing if the buttons were all different sizes and shapes - and going back to fewer buttons with multiple multiple shift and escape functions to access all the features would be equally or even more complex, trying to remember all the combinations. I would like to see a different intermediate throttle, somehwere between the UT4 and DT402, single encoder, 0-10 keypad, select loco button, and I suppose 2 shift buttons, one for F10-F19 and one for F20-29 (which I don’t ever use since all the high functions ever seem to be used for on sound decoders are cattle car and city sounds, which I don;t want coming out of my locos, but if access was not given to the full 29 functions, people would complain, since MRC’s giant hyperbole machine has made it ‘absolutely critical’). There are some DIY Loconet compatible options that are close to this already. A display to see what number you keyed in is kind of important, too.

–Randy

[Rick_Mugele]

Guy, Randy,

Have you actually done this with the Digitrax Zephyer, Blunt brake circuit, and Tsunami? If so, can you provide details?

Thanks,

Rick

[trainnut1250]

Rick,

If I understand you correctly, Yes I have done this many times…The brake set up is included my standard configuration for Tsunami equipped locos on my layout… I have set up around 10 locos with the brake. I use the Easy DCC system, I use the settings in the Tsunami CVs to acheive the effect that Randy and I referred to earlier. I’m sure this will work on any DCC system…

When i set up the decoder I usually re-map the functions so that F7 is the brake.This is explained in detail on page 24 of the Tsunami manual. The default brake is F11.

Specific brake instructions are on page 61 in the manual. You have to set CV 3 and 4 to a value of at least 20 (CV 3 is acceleration rate , CV 4 is braking rate).

You then set the degree of braking desired using CV 61 and that’s it.

When coming down grade I will apply the brake by pressing F7 and the train slows down with out touching the throttle setting, when released, the train speeds up to the original throttle setting (hence the acceleration setting CV 3). Only downside is if a loco at rest has the brake turned on, there can be a moment of “why doesn’t my train respond to the throttle”…You have to release the brake to move. The brake setting is a fixed amount of braking, there is no way to vary the intensity of the brake without resetting the CV. Not perfect but still pretty cool effect.

Hope this is helpful,

Guy

[Rick_Mugele]

Guy, Randy,

Randy mentioned connecting the Blunt brake throttle to the Zephyr “jump port”. How does this work?

Also, when using the F7 brake, can the throttle be increased increase the stopping distance?

Thanks,

Rick

[rrinker]

The Zephyr jump port simply takes the output of a DC throttle and uses it as the throttle control for a DCC address assigned to it. So the functioning would be whatever functioning offered by the DC throttle connected. It simply monitors the voltage developed across the output, same as a DC loco running on the track would, and it translates that into a DCC speed step. So if the effect of the throttle would be to increase the output voltage if the throttle lever was opened while the brake was applied, then yes, the loco would speed up. At a given throttle position and brake handle position, the voltage will be decreasing, so the loco will slow down. If the brake is increased, it will drop faster, if the brake is reduced, it will drop slower or if the throttle position is such that it would overcome the brake, the voltage would go up, so the loco would speed up.

–Randy

[Rick_Mugele]

Randy,

Thanks for the update. In digging through the archive, I found the October 1975 RMC with the Jack Burgess quarter-size cab control feature. Jack used the TAT IV with Blunt brake circuits. In the same issue was the second part of the Don Fehmann SST/7 which featured train and independent brakes. I suppose either of these cabs could be plugged into the Zephyr jump port?

Thanks again,

Rick

[trainnut1250]

Also, when using the F7 brake, can the throttle be increased increase the stopping distance?

No, increasing the throttle after the brake is applied has no effect. In regards to the simulator that Jack Burgess built that you mentioned and your other thread about blunt brakes and throttles, you might contact Jack directly through his website:

http://www.yosemitevalleyrr.com/

I have seen Jack’s simulator (pretty nifty) but i believe that it is not currently in use on his NCE DCC controlled layout.

Guy