Can anyone shed some light on the application of Lion Chief & Lion Chief +, my primary concern is why are they not forward compatible to the TMCC or Legacy formats. I can see the need of having an entry level remote capability. But, wouldn’t it be desirable that it be upgradable to the TMCC or Legacy? Secondly, why would you want specific controllers for each engine?
I can see a real quandary if someone wanted to buy a grandchild a system for Christmas, and be able to run it on Grandpa’s layout.
Another factor especially with the Lion Chief +, if I saw an engine or road name I liked, I would opt out just because of having to add another control system, and remote.
Don, This video should help. I checked this out before I pulled the trigger on the Dinosaur set I ordered for the grandson last week.
It answered a lot of the questions I had. The set is not to be delivered till early December if I am so lucky so I can’t tell you anymore at this time.
The LionChief series of trains are designed to be an inexpensive introduction into remotely controlled trains. As such, they are made as simple as possible, and yet retain some of the features of the more expensive and sophisticated trains. To engineer the LionChief trains to be upgradeable to Legacy would be possible if chassis wiring, plugs and sockets were standardized for both remote systems. The use of different remotes for every train is a cost saving measure also. To be able to assign different frequencies to different trains using only one remote would add complexity and cost. In the end, these simple systems are no different than the simple 3 or 4 channel remote systems that entry level RC planes have. If you want the 8 or 10 channel planes, you get the requisite remote system. It is understood and accepted that the starter system remotes will be replaced when you step up into a more sophisticated model.
If you like a locomotive that is only available in LionChief, I am sure that they can be upgraded to the latest technology to run on the TMCC and Legacy systems.
Larry, while many things are possible, I have not heard of anyone who has converted one to TMCC. I’m not sue that the cost of the components and installation would not be more than the locomotive. If someone on the forum has done this, I’d like them to post their comments on how it was achieved (ease/cost/time).
I agree with you , Bob. My statement was based on the premise that a certain engine or road name was available only in LionChief, and that price is no object to get an engine converted to operate on the TMCC/Legacy systems.
Don,
Not everyone wants to ‘upgrade’ to Legacy. I plan on buying another of the Thomas sets (have Thomas for Christina) for Matthew and then building them a small layout for just their use. I won’t put them on the same track, nor have switches to ‘join’ the two loops. I am planning to add a few animated accessories though.
I see it as a way to get them interested in trains. Christina absolutely LOVES her Thomas set and has been hammering to play with it.
At some point I may buy them each their own engine to run on the main layout, but that won’t be for at least 5 years.
Don, The LionChief remote, basic or +, communicate directly with the loco. No “command base” type of electronics required. As long as “Granpa’s” layout is three rail and is carrying sufficient power, operating with TMCC/Legacey/DCS, the Lionchief loco’s will function just fine. Even operating at the same time as Gramps. The only problem might be if Gramps gets the same Lionchief set for multiple grandkids and they all show up to run on his layout at the same time. [swg]
Edit: Just saw Brent’s post. If you plan on getting a second Thomas set you will run into operating issues since all of the Thomas engines use the same frequency. Maybe opt for a Percy or James instead.
Lion Chief locomotives can be operated only with their included dedicated remotes.
Lion Chief + locomotives can also be operated with the transformer instead of the remote.
Not including the ability to interface with Legacy or TMCC is a shortsighted blunder. I could be convinced otherwise but IMHO the additional cost of the additional electronics must be pennies. Perhaps Lionel licensed the electronic design of Legacy from a third party and is paying a beefy royalty.
Upon reviewing the video, and the comments. I can see where it has appeal to the entry level. I think it was an oversight to exclude TMCC compatibility. Especially when you consider the cost of ERR TMCC upgrade. However, I really doubt that it was a simple oversight, and must be an effort to protect the other products from a lower cost engine. Would have thought that with a TMCC compatibility the sales volume would be justifiable for the Lion Chief product lines. (Grandpa may have enjoyed running some of those engines when the kids aren’t around. And, what happens if both grand kids want Thomas as opposed to one having to run Percy or Diesel. Just my opinion.)
How about giving us applied details and scale examples for basically the same price as these “entry level” toys for kids? Allow me to go digital if I choose. I think the affordable price of a TMCC hand held and base kinda makes these LC offerings redundant. What market there might be will probably be killed off when Bachmann Williams starts selling their I-phone gizmo.
Most has been said but buying a set with remote and nothing else to buy is a big winner for first time buyers. Not having TMCC keeps the cost down in set price and no remote system to buy.
I am obviously behind in all things Lionel since I’ve just become aware that nothing they offer these days is straight TMCC. So my previous comment about TMCC making LC+ redundant is not a fair comparison. Once TMCC is taken out of the equation I see why it makes sense that Lionel is offering LC+. It’s sort of like TMCC lite.
After scanning the current catalog it’s apparent that the LionChief Plus offerings are relatively less expensive than their Legacy controlled counterparts. Compare the LC, NW2 at roughly $300 to the same sized Legacy equipped Alco S2 at $650. A substantial difference to be sure and makes the NW2 look like a real bargain.
I suppose the LC+'s ability to be operated in conventional mode makes it somewhat compatible with TMCC or Legacy when using a TPC, so I’m almost sold on LC+. I do like that little Camelback too.
Let me throw this out there… I purchased a Polar Express LionChief set last October. By no means am I a novice at this stuff, I have my share of TMCC and conventional as well as the Legacy system once I have my layout up and running. By far, this is a great entry or mid level set. I LOVE the sounds and the operation is easy. My girl friend’s 6 year old daughter only needed to be told what the controller did and she was off. I did purchase it delivered sub $210(complete with track and plug in transformer)and that my friends is a BARGAIN!!! Based upon this purchase, I am in line to get the CNJ Camelback once Lionel gets them on our shores. The bonus is its a LionChief Plus. In MY opinion, this offering is the biggest and best bang for the buck that Lionel has ever offered. I have the conventional Polar Express and love it!!! That set is destined to go to my daughter for her (future) family and Christmases.
I think my concern somehow has gotten turned inside out. My concern was what about the guy, who doesn’t have any grandchildren, and would like to expand engine roster without spending $500 +. By sacrificing some of the detail and purchasing say a Lion Chief + engine. And IF it was possible to run it in a TMCC environment you wouldn’t need ANOTHER handheld. Gosh, I would buy a Camelback too.
I guess I’m asking too much, not trying to take anything away from the little ones. And I’m REALLY happy that they are available as marketed as they have been. [soapbox].
I see where your coming from but my question since you want to compare apples to oranges in my mind what are the real differences
I can take a legecy or TMCC engine over to my friends place that has TMCC an run it with out worrying about bring the controller also
I don’t need a different controller for each engine even if color coated it will be just to many after while if you go just this.
Can’t run two of same engine together with out some problems from what I understand.
Legacy has lot more detail so I know your comparing a $300 engine to a $600+ engine but you need to compare equals and to be honest you can’t between the 2 you can compare similarities and see which fits you best and which you can afford/like better but to compare a Legacy engine to a lionch
How many trains do most of us run at one time with a remote? I don’t see a problem with having separate ones for each engine type. As stated earlier these are good engines without the added expense of a TMCC/Legacy add- on.
**RT,**You must of done okay after the surgery, Good on that,
Did you watch the video link I posted in the start of the thread? It tells a lot of the reason and thought behind the LionChief system,
I ordered one and when and if it ever shows I will let you know what I think. Not worth the time till I have one in my hand, and like SJ said how often do you run more than one train. TMCC is history today and by design…Like cell phones and computers, wait 6 months and what you have is redundant. [*-)] . I want to get the grand kids started,Hope this will be the ticket.
I have no idea if it can up-grade or not what alone that would cost. Good question though,