I am new to this site and would like to say hello to all the members. I am just starting my very first train collection and need some help. I have just recieved an older Lionel #1120 steamer from a friend of mine, and the train only goes into reverse…Is there a “E-Unit” inthis model that can be bad…I have had someone tell me this model is from the 1950’s and that it has no “E-Unit” if this is o what can I do to get this train working properly?
Any type of info on this type of steamer would be greatly appreciated,as I am starting this collection just in time for Christmas as a set up for around the tree for my children. And then I hope to continue the set by creating my own track set up/ town for hobbying.
I don’t know too much about Lionel, but I may have a few suggestions for you that may help.
Check to see if there is a switch somewhere on the locomotive itself (probably on the bottom of the tender). I have seen some that used a switch to “lock” the relay in either forward or reverse.
check the transformer - there might be a direction switch on that.
open up the loco and see if the relay is stuck. It’ll probably be in the tender. you should be able to free this pretty easily (most of the ones I’ve seen from that era are pretty open to the world - ie not much covering the moving bits than the shell of the tender itself)
Thanks for the info NeO…so if I’m understanding you this has no “E-Unit”…thank god I was getting worried on it. I have been looking for a couple of days for the unit for an #1120 and didn’t really know what I was looking for as in all the diff model #'s they referenced to and none looked like my number.
If any others have any type of info I can use on this model it will greatly be appreciated …that is until I get some reference materials on the train itself. Oh one more thing to ask… am I safe to assume that this model #1120 is a 1950’s era ?[bow]
I have no idea of what an “E-unit” is… although it appears that an “E-Unit” is a solid-state version of a relay, so if that’s bad, then you have to buy a new one… (at least with the old relays you are able to get at the moving bits usually, so they can be freed up)
I did a little digging around, and all I can come up with is that it is a steam locomotive with a 2-4-2 wheel arrangement… and the few sources I’ve found seem to agree that this is a '50s era locomotive, although there are no real dates or anything…
I can’t guarentee anything about the age of the loco. Is 1120 a model number stamped on the bottom, or painted on to the side of the locomotive?
It “1120” is on the side of the loco…and on the original box itself…so I’m guessing that it is the model. I forgot to mention that it is O scale/gauge,and all metal construction not the plastic version. I also heard it refered to as a scout 2-4-2 and a person is telling me that this engine never had an “E-Unit”. So I would still like a second opinion on the matter.
My recollection is that all Lionels of this era had E-units, although I was only in elementary school at the time so some info may have escaped me.
Is that a switch or lever of some sort between the two domes on the top of the engine? In the steamer I had as a boy, and other Lionels I remember, they put the E-unit locking switch at the top of the engine like that.
You might try posting your question on the Classic Trains forum. There are typically more Lionel users over there. But, let us know how you make out, OK?
It is a switch on the top and it moves freely…I’m guessing I’m going to hafta pull it open and see if maybe something may have come disconnected. I will keep you posted on it.
Sorry everyone for posting my topic in the wrong forum…I am asking for moderators to move it to the approprate site/forum.
Oh, just leave it here and post another one over there. You’d be surprised at how many of us actually started with Lionels, back when dinosaurs ruled the earth. Sometimes, it’s fun to remember those trains, and we appreciate it when somebody brings back those memories. Good luck. And thanks for bringing an old train back to life.
Mr. B and Dauby - you both appear to be right. I’ve done a lot more digging (google is amazing), and it appears that Lionel had two types of control schemes for making their locos work - a relay and an “E-unit” (or it might be the same thing, just with relays, and later with electronics).
The switch allows for locking and unlocking of the unit - which, if it’s a relay and hasn’t been run in a while (a few years) will stick.
your best bet will be to take the loco apart… I figured the tender, because thats where the old American Flyers had their rectifiers/relays (I’ve had much more exposure to AF problems/fixing them than Lionels…). The best way to loosen them up is to get a screwdriver and GENTLY move the relay’s moving bit to unfreeze it. As soon as you feel it loosen up, stop using the screwdriver, then place the loco on the track. hold on to the loco, so it doesn’t get away from you, and rock it so that the electric connection gets broken/restored. If you’ve already freed the relay up, and have the transformer on “full”, you should be able to get enough kick to throw the relay. Do this a couple of times to be sure its freed up, and then you should be set.
Yes, in the good old days of A.C. locomotion, Lionel and American Flyer had electronic relays in them to reverse the polarity of the motor’s magnetic field, and hence the engine itself. These E-units, or reverse units, were very problematic and often jammed or became fouled with dirt, corrosion, etc. The drums & contacts that make up the switch wear over time and need to be replaced if they become pitted. Sometimes they simply require polishing with a fine 600 or so grit sandpaper, or even a pencil eraser.
You can start by taking Dan’s advice and see if you can free it up by simply exercising it a bit. A good aerosol contact cleaner, like the type sold by Radio Shack, would be a good start, but make sure it’s plastic friendly. You can check the toy train section of this forum for advice on your particular model. I’ve discovered that it’s a 2-4-2 via Google. I think subscribing to Yahoo’s Lionel Postwar Trains would also be good for more specific info.
Thanks to each and everyone of you…this information is greatly appreciated by myself…especially when I’m standing there with my children on christmas day,and everyone is smiling![:D]
Yeah, trains under the tree make for happy holidays, and fond memories.
I was at a show this weekend, and I saw a Lionel 2-4-2 very much like yours. I looked at it and this one did not have a lever on the top. So, it may be that there were several versions of this model over the years. The engine was going for $10, so my guess is that it wasn’t in really good shape.
the E-unit is version of a DPDT or reversing switch that changes the electrical and magnetic direction of the motors field coil. Lionel usually put them in the loco, with no wiring to the tender.
I think the switch had a rotary drum and a magnetic latch mechanism that moved the drum one position every time power was applied. he latch fell down by gravity when power was shut off.
The E-unit also had an electric switch on it. a metal lever riveted to the case and a second rivet that it connected to. The lever could be moved to disconnect the E-unit and the loco would stay in whatever direction (or non-direction) it was set at. If the lever loosened, the operation could become erratic. The lever (silver coloured) usually stuck up through the top of the boiler; it may have had other places.
I think Olsens Toys have diagrams explaining it all and might have a service sheet for your loco.
To everyone that gave me a helping hand…Thank you! It is running once again in the forward motion. It needed a good 'ol cleaning! It was rather dirty and had a piece of plastic lodged inside that was holding it into reverse. Running very well in forward and reverse both fast and slow…kids love it! as well as myself. Hopefully I may be considered a member of your community…and one of these days lend a helping hand to one of you. I am very greatful and appreciate all of the help![bow]
The Lionel 1120 Locomotive was produced in 1950. It was a part of the “Scout” series of low price sets. All Lionel locomotives of that period had a reversing system, most the “E Unit”
The “E Unit” has nothing to with electronics, it was (is) a Step Relay that they inherited from the 1930s takeover of Ives Train Company. Each time the power was turned off, a “Pawl” controled by an electrical coil, would fall onto a “Ratchet Wheel” attached to a “Reversing Drum”, when power was re-applied the “Pawl” would pickup, moving the “Rotating Drum” one notch. Forward, Neutral, Reverse, Neutral, Forward, etc.
To lower the cost of “Scout” locomotives (1110, 1120, 6110) they eliminated the “E Unit”. In its place, Lionel put a “Pivit” on one half of the Motor Field. A “Pawl” was attached to this “Movable Field” to move the “Reversing Drum” . It worked, but not good. The idear was abandon after 3 years. It does require it be kept clean.
Ref: Greenburg’s Repair and Operating Manual – Page 102 to 114
An electromagnetic E-unit can be considered an early electronic component, but of course contains no semiconductors. Perhaps I should have said “electromagnetic” or “electro-mechanical.”
