over the weekend I aquired a Western Pacific passenger set. It consited of a pair 2355 diesels, silver cloud coach, three silver vista dome cars and the observation. What I need to know is the diesels origanal. They dont match Greenburs’s book discription. These have solid port holes never had the clear plasitic incerts. Also the ladders on the side are cast in not added to the side. The horn is in the powered A unit not in the dummy. The lettering is heat stamped in black. Is this a new varition? The person I bought it from said his dad bought the set in 1954 at a hobby shop in Kansas City MO. Any information would be great.
Detailed photos, please. Repaint(probably MPC) shells on 2353 chassis.
I don’t think so. I will try to get pic’s tonight. You can tell that these shells are origanal to these frames. The number boards say 2355. And when I removed the shell the screw that held it on was tight like it had never been off since new. It is very dirty along with the cars it had been setting for a long time on a shelf in the basement, the owner told me.
Number boards are easily changed and have been reproduced.
Reproduction F3 shells, painted on genuine blank Lionel cabs, were readily available for a while, I think it was the mid to late 1970’s. Not positive on the date, it might have been a little later.
So those cabs would have some age to them now.
Pictures would be helpful.
According to the Doyle book your 2355 should not have those ‘cheapened’ details as they did not appear until a few years later. Maybe yours is a Madison hardware release?
Madison Hardware could be the answer, they did a lot of stuff like that. Your description of the bodies and horn placement don’t match any known regular issue of this engine. 50+ years is a long enough time for variables to have been found.
S.J.
This sounds real interesting. Also, back in 1954 there were quite a few hobby shops in Kansas City, MO, but the one that was downtown and vivid in my memory was Joe Falk. 60 years later, I drive by that location and always think about it. Joe Falk’s hobby shop was located below street level, and you cound see down into it from a plate glass window. You could also push a button and a train would start up and run by on a track situated below.
How do you post pics?
here is a link to the photos of the locomotive.
The number boards on your engine jumped out at me.
They should be black, with the paint removed from the numbers, which are raised.
Your number boards are clear.,
Your right, The numbers are raised but it looks like it never had black on it. Also they are old since they are turning yellow with age.
If these are indeed the shells in question, they are reproduction. All original postwar F-3 shells, without exception, have two louvres (they look like small shutters), one on either side at the front of the shell. There are even repros of shells WITH these louvres. Then you look for other evidence of fake or reproduction items.
I thought I read somewhere (possibly Greenburg) that the reproduction shells the lettering was silk screend on the body. These are heat stamped like the originals. Were some of the repros heat stamped?
Anything is possible, but this scenario is unlikely. Sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between heat-stamping and silk-screening, without a jeweler’s loop. Are you SURE that these are heat-stamped?
They are heat stamped. I looked at them with a jewlers loop (I do clock repair so I have one) I can see the valley where the black paint rests. and the mealted plastic ridge around the letters.
According to the Postwar Lionel Reproduction Handbook Guide, which was published by the TCA, F3 reproductions were typically done with either silk screened or dry transfer lettering.
However, they mention some other reproduction items that have heat stamping. Therefore, heat stamping is no guarantee that an item is an original Lionel postwar factory product.
I am now wondering if something happend to the origanal shells and his dad ordered replacements from either Lionel or Madison hardware. And these were what was sent to him. It really dosen’t matter. It is a good looking set, and i’ll enjoy running it on the layout. (although I wiould like to solve the mystery)[:^)]
You probably have the right and best idea…just enjoy them for their appearance and “runnability”. I was going to suggest, if you REALLY need a solution to this conundrum, that you contact Paul Ambrose or Drew Bauer of Ambrose-Bauer Auctions, or Greg Stout of Stout Auctions. They have probably seen enough variations of items over the years, that they could give you an opinion. I don’t know if they would charge for this service or not. Worth a try.
I don’t think there is any possibility it came from Lionel, the shell is not postwar. At best its modern era, due to the missing vents.
Modern era Lionel would not gear up and decorate shells for a product they weren’t going to run. Paint masks are expensive to produce. They were in the business of selling complete trains, not parts. I don’t recall the exact year it was adopted, they had a policy of only selling shells with an exchange for the damaged one.
As for Madison: they did carry at least some reproduction shells. I am not aware of anything that is unique about them.
That’s an even earlier 2343 Chassis.