I got a decent deal today on a standard gauge Lionel #5 0-4-0 with the tender and a few matching freight cars, all in need of restoration! The engine and tender have obviously been (poorly) restored already, so stripping it down and repainting it in this case should only be an improvement to the value since the original collector value is already knocked way down.
What I’m wondering about is what railroad it should be. The one I got is a later thick-rim model with the 8-wheel tender. The repainted cab is unmarked, and the tender has Pennsylvania RR stamped on it. Looking around with Google, some of the early thin-rim models have Pennsylvania stamped on the cab, but a later example more like mine that has a PRR tender also has a NYC&HRRR cab (unless it was a mismatched set). Does anyone know how Lionel would have stamped these in the 1913-1923 productions? And are there any small indications anywhere that would tell me if this is supposed to be a PRR or NYC version?
I’d have to check the books I can’t get to at the moment ( 
) but I THINK those #5’s were originally marked NYC&HRRR. I’ll add more when I can but I’d look at it this way, considering it’s repainted already and the collector value’s blown you can mark it any way you want. If you’re an NYC fan or PRR fan act appropriately.
According to the 2nd Edition of Lionel Standard of the World the tender was offered with either NYC&HRR or Pennsylvania markings during its period of manufacture. The book doesn’t indicate if this was a change from one kind of marking to another at a given point in time or if it was a case of both types of marking being offered concurrently.
The McComas and Tuohy reference Lionel a Collector’s Guide and History Vol 3 - Standard Gauge indicates the #5 tender came with various RR markings and does not mention a changeover from one kind of railroad marking to another. They do note the NYC&HRR marking is the most common.
I have four books on Standard Gauge.
Greenberg’s is the best of them.
Doyle is second best but mentioned some things Greenberg’s didn’t.
Is it just me or does that say “PENN RR”?
The only mismatched pair mentioned is the “NYC&HRRR” locomotive with a “B&O” tender.
But only Greenberg’s shows the incredibly scarce “M.St.P. & S.St.M.Ry.” variation.
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It sure looks like it to me!
I am not strong in prewar, but you’ll be in good hands here. Just wanted to say good luck with your restoration!
Paul
Thank for all the info! I guess I can just pick and choose then. 
Since the repaint is Pennsylvania, I think I’ll just assume that’s what it was originally this time.
It is amazing how much history there is just in this one model! I know there have been some reproductions of it from McCoy and possibly a couple others, but those seem to be even rarer than the original Lionels because I have yet to see one pop up anywhere. Of course, it’s also possible some of the McCoy ones have been sold as Lionels, and that’s apparently the reason why they stopped making exact reproductions after only a short time. The one I got is definitely an original Lionel though!
https://i.imgur.com/JZicFRu.jpeg
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James Cohen created the tooling for early Standard Gauge steam locomotives that were later purchased by Joe Mania. Models manufactured by Mr Mania have “JLM” permanently cast or stamped into them so they won’t be taken for original Lionels.
Other early names for reproduction or brand new original Standard/Wide Gauge trains include Fred Mill and Jerry Williams of Classic Models Corporation which of course spun off Classic Model Trains and Williams Reproductions. Here’s a photo from Peter Riddle’s “America’s Standard Gauge Electric Trains” of their handiwork.
Who wouldn’t love having one of these?
Speaking of eye poppers, the 600E Liberty Lines Hudson.
McCoy’s 4-4-0 based on Lionel’s #6/7.
If you come across this book, buy it!
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I’d sure love having one! Assuming I was “Right time, right place!” lucky and ran into one AND could afford the thing!
“The stuff that dreams are made of…”
PS: That model looks a LOT better than the real Erie Camelbacks ever did! They were not handsome engines. 
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I’m not into Standard Gauge but that looks like a book I just might buy. It’s all part of the story. 
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Careful. You read that book, and you just might decide you are into standard gauge!
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