This past week I have been trying to clear up a few remaining issues with the CW-80. To this end I spoke with Lionel Technical Services and received the latest Manual for the CW. The tech was very polite, even sweet, but not terribly forthcoming.
For example, I could not get a definitive answer to the question of how to distinguish a newly revised CW from one of the old ones. Not date of manufacture, not “G” prefix, nada. The tech wouldn’t commit to a direct answer. She did send me the latest Owner’s Manual, which is not yet onlline. (The part number is 71-4198-250, Rev. 1/04.*) As nearly as I can figure, it makes no distinction between the old and the newly revised CW’s.
Worse yet, it repeats the error on page 5 that purports to illustrate the most fundamental information – how to hook the CW up to tubular track – and gets it backwards! This error has now been carried through three versions! (Note: I believe the hook-up instructions for FasTrack are correct relative to the revised CW-80.) One thing I was told unequivocally: the “cautions” in the old instructions relative to the common-ground problem are now void. The good news is that the newly revised CW-80 now works as originally intended, and you can use it with any accessory, using a common-ground or not, as you choose. (The cautions remain for the older, non-revised CW’s, of course.)
Perhaps you can share my chagrin in the knowledge that they have now fixed the transformer, but if you hook it up according to their instructions you negate the fix. How dumb is that?
One can, of course, distinguish a new CW from an old one simply by placing an ohmmeter across the U terminals: if its a new one the meter should read zero ohms. That is, on the new ones only, the two U posts are common, as in the postwar ZW, for example. Less than ideal, but it works. And, with the revised ones only, the well-publicized “workaround” that reversed the whistle and bell buttons is finall
First, thanks for your insight into the CW-80 problems. Remember when Lionel had just that simple little transformer in their starter sets? Well, take this with a grain of salt: Perhaps the outsourcing of their assembly to China has something to do with the a. quality issues, and b. the problem with the manuals. Don’t Chinese read from right to left? That could be why all the manuals are backwards! (This is a joke…abeit maybe with a grain of truth)
Second, I hate to see you run off from this forum! I, too, have been on a forum where several people’s opinions forced me to consider leaving. However, after several others responded both publically and privately, I stayed with the particular forum. Just remember, like arse orifices, everyone has an opinion, whether good or bad You have to learn to weed out the good from the bad. If you see some of my postings, I made a posting within the past couple weeks, only to get a quick cheap shot from someone asking why I posted the question if I didn’t like the answer. Instead of keeping his mouth (and fingers) shut, he had to feel good about taking a quick shot at me. I was trying to just vent a personal thought but agreed with the replies, and I got the cheap shot.
Just blow it off! There is a LOT of good information here. There are a couple people on every forum that KNOW it ALL…they must work at that Lionel Hard Rock Cafe (Love All, Serve All…Know it ALL lol) Don’t let a couple people run you off. Just skip their replies if you don’t agree!
Knowledge is power…strength is in the numbers…the more people on the list, the stronger we get as there is more knowledge! Stick around!
As far as I’m concerned, your continuing technical observances regarding the CW-80 have been the single largest contribution to this and the OGR Forum. Your tireless efforts to describe the problem, present us with examples of fixes, questions regarding dating and stamping numbers are exactly what these boards were designed for.
Like you, I always thought that the CW-80 was a great idea, badly executed. We only have one, and it’s dead. But because of you, I know we can send it back and get a properly constructed one. Meanwhile our two BW-80’s (the unsung hero from a few years back) continue to soldier on.
Before you go, let me just say that when I saw your by-line I would always read the thread, knowing that there was some kernal of thought lurking amongst the dross. If you still must go, you will be missed.
Hello Wolverine! I do hope that you re-consider your decision to leave this forum also & to keep in mind that there are many here who contribute info & you’re one of them. Take Care.
I have considered your posts to be informative and helpful. Your decision to end participation on both forums doesn’t sit well with me. I’d urge you to reconsider. It’s people like you that we all learn and benefit from. Your selfless attitude and dilligenge with the CW-80 issues have helped many of us to understand the quirks of this transformer. Shake it off and loosen up a bit. Post on the coffee pot thread and let us get to know you. Then when we harrass you, you’ll know it is meant in a freindly sort of way!
Yallaen,
I’m the guy who replied to you about your wire question. My reply was NOT meant as a cheap shot. It was a legit question. You asked about what gauge wire you should use on your layout. The vast majority told you to use 14 gauge wire. Period, end. You then wrote back that you thought it was overkill. The reply posters have a lot of knowledge and experience with toy trains. Some of them are geniuses when it comes to electrical matters. I was a little taken back by your remark is all. It seemed as though you were bent on doing it your own way, which is fine. We took the time to answer your question and your reply seemed to me to just blow all that experience off. Sorry if I was wrong. We were all just trying to answer your question the best we could. Speaking for myself, I’d much rather see you use a wire that is large enough to accomodate your needs rather than one that is too small and would cause you grief.
Wolverine, I have been reading and enjoying your thoughtful analysis of the CW-80 issues and I haven’t posted because I don’t have one! However forewarned is forearmed thanks to you. The CW-80 issues have been flogged to death on both forums but the majority of posts have been of the “what’s wrong?” - “This thing stinks” - “No it doesnt” variety which havent really been very useful in sharp contrast to your detective approach.
As for ‘resigning’ I certainly hope I havent said anything to contribute towards that feeling because I know it well and recognize exactly what you refer to. Frankly I consider the behaviour ill mannered but its to be expected - unfortunately - one has only to draw the obvious conclusions but don’t let them deny you the pleasure of those posters whose remarks you do enjoy nor deprive us of your insight.
I’d like to say more and be more specific but to do so would earn me the ire of the hosts and only exarcebate the situation. Feel free to contact me via email if you wish and I might then be unwise enough to take the gloves off.
Wolverine,
Where I’m not prone to like your moniker, you have been on of the most helpful and informative people on this forum. I don’t peruse the OGR forum, but I can say you will be sorely missed here, so I SINCERELY hope you will reconsider.
It is people like you that we need more of here! All your posts about the CW and other items have been very helpful to me, and for selfish reasons I really hope you don’t ditch us! We need you around here!
I, like Thor, hope I am not a contributing factor to this decision. The anonymity of the net tends to give us the feeling that we can do, say, and act, in any manner we so chose. I’m not the pigheaded, arrogant, S.O.B. I come across as here! At least I hope I’m not!
In closing, if you are ever in the Baltimore area, and want to partake of a cold one, shoot me an email! I’ll be moving in about 8 - 9 months and will begin construction on the new layout about 2 - 3 months after that (about this time next year)… you will be welcome to stop in and assist in construction, or the running of the trains, depending on what stage the layout is in at that time!
Let me echo what others have said, your passion would be sorely missed. I have always been a fan of the CW80’s design. However, because of the problems with its operation, I have stayed away. Thanks to your insight and determination, you have made me comfortable in buying one in the future. In addition, you have helped many others with their ongoing issues.
Do not let some negative posts dishearten you. Every forum has snipers, but this one is better than most. Also remember that the majority of visitors never post and, as a result, you may not get a true picture of your contributions.
Let me add my voice to the chorus, Wolverine. Yours has been a reasonable voice in a tempestuous discussion. I learned from you what I needed to know to deal with the CW-80 that I knew was in my boys’ PE set not to mention enjoyed the opportunity to bounce ideas off you that will benefit my layout. Your hands-on experience and information gathering campaign have benefitted many of us here.
WOLVERINE49: Although not as a prolific contibutor as you have been, I too, have received some, should I be so bold to say, sarcastic and uninformative responses to my posts. I have not agreed, obviously, with their retorts and have taken, as I have learned many years ago while I was working, to ‘consider the source’. It makes life a lot more bearable.
The greater number of members, I suspect, have enjoyed your perspective and concern about some issues and would like to to stay aboard.
[2c]I am not a real fan of Lionel ‘Tech’ support and have noticed that their “proof readers” of their catalogs miss things. One thing that comes to mind is a description in (2006-Vol.2) of the items in a “Ready-to-Run” set that says there is an “operating log dump car” and goes on to say that there is included a track section that activates the “coal dump car”.
I know that this has been very wordy but bottom-line, please reconsider.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! This is extremely flattering and most unexpected, but it’s also awkward and embarrassing – rather like attending one’s own funeral. I really do appreciate it, but it needs to stop. (Besides, as of this writing the score is 11 in my favor, and 195 abstentions. Not really a resounding victory.) [:D]
Thanks to each and all of you. A couple of personal notes:
lionroar88: Sincerely hope that Joe Pa is going to be all right and back on the sidelines next season. Don’t forget, the Wolverines didn’t do it to him…
EIS2: 42 is the response that the greatest-ever supercomputer came up with after calculating for seven years nonstop, as I recall, in Douglas Adams’ Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy and what followed. Here is an excerpt from www.funtrivia.com “…ultimate answer to Life, the Universe and Everything. Unfortunately, it is not known exactly what the question was, so nobody is the wiser.”
I have long felt that Lionel really missed it’s chance to call our little friend the CW-42. Of course, there is a major revision out – perhaps it’s not too late…
Thanks again to everybody. The problem really isn’t any of you, it’s the guys over at OGR! [:D] Joke! Joke! Joke! [:D]
Seriously, I’m old and tired and not terribly well. It’s time to climb down – at least for a while.
I’m going to contact Lionel and maybe post a line or two before completely bagging it – if I learn anything.
I will leave you with this thought: Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. – D
I wouldn’t waste my time worrying about the OGR crowd, definitely not worth it. The Lionel docs are about par for the course which is unfortunate, sometimes the mistakes can be funny. The really bad part s how few even examine the “extra packing material” in the box.
I hope you feel better and I really hope you reconsider and keep partcipating.
Wolverine, You may be “old and tired and not terribly well” physically, but your mind is sharp as a tack. Take some well deserved rest and then come on back to the forum.
[#wstupid] Don’t let yourself be pushed away… Just take some time off, and may be we’ll meet again on the forum someday. Let’s not forget that these trains are just toy’s and that toy’s are not worth fighting for.
Wolverine: Let me add my vote to those that ask that you stay. God knows I’ve been through similar treatment as you. Some deserved…some NOT. But don’t let a select few on the forum chase you away. If you do, THEY win and WE all LOSE. While I don’t own the transformer you describe (thank goodness!), I found your posts informative as well as interesting.
No need to bash the OGR forum. The people there are not any different than the people here. In fact, in many or most cases they’re probably the same people.
People who post to discussion forums are going to express their opinions. That’s what it’s all about. One may think the CW-80 is a terribly problematic transformer (I’m in that group), while the next guy may say he’s had one for four years and never had a problem. Both may be absolutely correct, and one person’s response in that example is no more valid than the others. Forum visitors–old and new read both points of view and decide for themselves which seems to stand the test as far as their requirements are concerned.
Online forums are not for the feint of heart, especially if one elects to actively participate. Ya gotta develop a pretty thick skin, because there’s no question that some bricks are going to be thrown your way no matter what you choose to say. The “safe” and anonymous nature of Internet dialog just about guaranteed that because people feel both empowered and remote, and therefore secure from the consequences of their actions. Bar fights in cyberspace, which are common, are in that respect very different from bar fights at the neighborhood watering hole.
Bash the OGR forum? What is it about two “big smiles” and the word “Joke!” three times that you don’t understand? I’m surprised, what with your literary background and all. I’ll miss you, for sure.
You have to learn to weed out the good from the bad. If you see some of my postings, I made a posting within the past couple weeks, only to get a quick cheap shot from someone asking why I posted the question if I didn’t like the answer. Instead of keeping his mouth (and fingers) shut, he had to feel good about taking a quick shot at me. I was trying to just vent a personal thought but agreed with the replies, and I got the cheap shot.