I just read the review of the NASCAR trainset in the new issue of CTT. VERY disappointing. [V]
I was planning on surprising my wife with this set for her birthday. But after reading the review, it would have been insulting to give it to her. The complaints were low pulling power, crappy graphics, downgraded transformer, and generally a “cheesey” set not worth the money. What amazes me is that Lionel would “cheap up” on a NASCAR item. I mean I KNOW that NASCAR fans spend MILLIONS of dollars on NASCAR merchandise without batting an eye. Dale Earnhardt fans are STILL spending thousands on his stuff and he’s been dead since 2001!!! Lionel could have at least had one of their new TMCCII locos pulling this train and some cars with decent graphics and equipment on them. I’m sure they paid big $$$ to get the license from NASCAR to build this thing. Why skimp on the actual train? I like the suggestion CTT had for having NASCAR announcements instead of the low cost Trainsounds. It would have been cool to have a V8 engine sound like they had done on some previous Geeps they made. Maybe some “gentleman, start your engines” crewtalk too. One can’t help but wonder what is going on with marketing at Lionel.
I am certainly no marketing guru, but I do not think the whole NASCAR series was directed to current Lionel customers. As Mr. Calabrese has pointed out in his interviews, Lionel is attempting to expand their marketing breadth. For the typical NASCAR fan, this set may be very appealing, time will tell. In reality, is this set any worse than the Polar Express set? Is your wife a big NASCAR fan? Has she seen this set? What does she think of it? As a non-participant in the hobby, she may like it because she has no basis of comparison.
It does make sense that Lionel would want to keep the product price down for a new untested market. That forces them to omit some of the pricier options. If they have success, maybe you will see higher end items get produced in the future. Remember that train manufacturers have had mixed results with cross promotional items in the past.
I do agree with you that some additional NASCAR specific touches would make the product more appealing to everyone.
I’ll look forward to this review. Anecdotedly, I have some friends who worship anything NASCAR and they love these sets. They have no inkling or interest in toy trains per se, just the brand (and driver).
Yes, but it would also raise the price of the set. If you are going to (attempt) to branch off into a virgin market, then you must do your best to keep prices down. Chances are that most of the NASCAR fans that would buy that set would just display it on a shelf and never even run it.
Sorry I own this set and the loco DOES have pulling power ! A lot of starter sets as this one is, has the Power max. The graphics on the caboose were a blur as its suppose to be two cars crossing the finish line. The only thing I don’t like about the set is the plastic trucks. Probably will see more of that with the cost of die cast climbing! Oh by the way I purchased two sets one for myself and the other as a gift for $75 each on a Christmas clearance. They sell all day long on Ebay for an average price of $150 + shipping. I consider that a fair price and I’m happy [:D] If you think its poor send a note off to Lionel… All I know is that you can’t always believe what you read [:)][(-D] and I’m happy with my set!
johnandjulie: Do you own any NASCAR diecasts? The detail on them is just plane amazing for less than $100. I don’t and won’t own a Polar Express set. Just not my cup of tea. But I did buy my wife the Tony Stewart addon set from Lionel and it was pretty decent.
At least, nice enough that I was interested in the complete NASCAR train set. That was right up until I read the review in CTT. I’m glad I read it before buying. I can live with the plastic trucks, but the loco, at least the drivetrain in it, has to go. Maybe I can find just the loco for sale on E-Bay and take the shell off it and mount it on an MTH or Williams GP9. That would be a MAJOR improvement over the Lionel. As to keeping the product price down, do you know how much they had to pay for that NASCAR licdense? It was NOT cheap. MTH is willing to risk a Silver Bullet train…which is a VERR iffy gamble. Pretty much ANYTHING NASCAR sells well, so the risk is minimal. This Lionel set stinks of them trying to make a quick buck on the name alone. And trust me, if any NASCAR fan actually runs this set, they are NOT going to be a new Lionel customer.
njalb1: Don’t shoot the messenger! [:D] I only posted what I read in CTT. They tested it and it wasn’t even possible to make it go fast enough to leave the track WITHOUT pulling any cars. They said the rolling stock that comes with the set is very lightweight compared to similar cars. They said that the included set plus maybe one addon NASCAR set are about all the loco can handle. And this is with LIGHTWEIGHT cars!!! The graphics on the tank car are TAPE that is wrapped around it. Sending notes to Lionel is like whistling in the wind. They have their “marketing geniuses” and they will do as they please. I’m just glad I read the review before I wasted the money. Like I said, I’ll probably just buy the shell and mount it on a decent chassis from Williams or MTH. Then I can pull ALL the addons and not burn the dan
No doubt about it. I just hope the hinters don’t ever put that train on a track and try and run it. Gomer and Goober and Aunt Bee will be pretty disappointed with it’s performance [(-D]
Although I collect the higher end of Lionel, I did buy this set, and it has some POWER! The graphics are great, and its just a nice set in general, got alot of compliments about it and alot of “where can i get one” comments also. Although I love CTT, some of the articles in the past and present, really were off the mark including this one…BUT Buy what you like and want!
I never understood the desire to run your trains full tilt and have them fly off the track! That to me is just plain nuts… you spend $200+ on an engine and you’re going to destroy it by trying to have it fly off the track? Maybe, just maybe, Lionel realized people were doing this and that is why they included a lower powered transformer? Maybe it was the TRANSFORMER and not the engine that has the problem? I dunno but I read a lot of things that could contribute to the ‘seeming lack of power’.
I never run my engines at full power without a substantial load and then very rarely. If I have to pump 18Volts through the engine to get it to pull the load… I would rather take 2 or 3 cars off so the motors don’t burn out! But running your engines full tilt so the engine flies off the track just doesn’t make sense to me and honestly to me isn’t a fair test of an engine’s prowess… now if it can pull my house off its foundation at 10 volts… now that would be something to write home about… last I checked these were toys???
You may be on to something! After going to a race, or watching one on television, NASCAR fans may be itchin’ to put the pedal to the metal. Having a less powerful transformer may be very smart. I would be interested in hearing from CTT if they ran the engine with another transformer and if the performance of the engine was improved.
Anyway, from the smattering of responses, it appears that this set does have some appeal. While I am not a NASCAR fan, I am happy to see Lionel sell as many as they can. The more they sell, then the more money they have to develop new products.
who ever said running the trains at full tilt? I dont speed them to wreck them, I was pulling 29 boxcars, MPC and Postwar and the engine was as smooth as anything, and not struggling at a normal speed!
So MANY quarterbacks that grab the ball and try for a touchdown…only they are running the wrong way!!! [(-D] The POINT about the train not being able to get up to a speed that would cause it to leave the tracks WASN"T to make it leave the track.The POINT was THE POWER to do this ISN’T THERE!!! CTT DID compare a previous GP38 that Lionel released (a 9-year-old NJ Transit GP38). I QUOTE “At 12 volts it was like a rocket pulling the same consist; I didn’t bother to get it up to 18 volts because it would have flown off the test track”. There…I hope that straightens the quarterbacks out and lets them run in the right direction [:D]
Magazines have been know to get bad samples. An unfavorable review of a bad sample in OGR put one small-run brass manufacturer out of business even though others who bought the same engine reported none of the problems OGR did.
If others on this thread aren’t having any problems with the pulling power of the engine in the Nascar set, I would tend to suspect that maybe CTT got a bad sample.
In looking at the photos it looks like they used the small truck mounted can motors as opposed to the vertical. I have a Lionel L&N GP-38, 6-18819 I believe don’t want to run to the train room to check, and it looks much the same but no sound other than the horn. It is an extremely good pulling loco, usually it is the roustabout on the ceiling track where I put some of the rolling stock that won’t fit on the shelves. No problem at all moving around 15 to 20 predominantly scale size cars but I will not use it to move to many diecast. Operate yes, abuse no. [2c]
doug, you’re just another in a long list of experienced and accomplished quarterbacks running the wrong way. [:D]
I admit I do get a chuckle out of this stuff. One person reads a review and goes off on a “Lionel Blew It” pot and pan tossing tirade.
Folks who actually own the set - Heaven forbid we should apply actual hands on experience here - step up and say “hey, I own that set - it’s a good runner, strong puller, etc.”
Nope you guys who own it are all wrong, because one guy read in a magazine that it’s really this.
The funnier part is “you have to wonder what they are thinking in the Lionel marketinmg Department”
Ok, I’ll take a stab at it;
They’re thinking, “we’re really good at this and we know our stuff”
It is recognized throughout the hobby that the Calabrese-era marketing at Lionel has been a series of home runs, including:
Target, Home Depot and other mainstream retailers;
Abercrombie & Fitch, Fortunoffs and other high end shops;
Nascar;
Polar Express (was that pre-Calabrese?, not sure on this one)
Harry Potter;
Re-establishing a New York City presence;
Placement of holiday layouts in prestigious high traffic locations;
the NBC Nightly News story (which was Lionel-driven, you can be sure);
On top of that these guys are running the industry leading train company - and JC’s previous experience was running the poster child for great cross-
