I bid on and won a Lionel KW - missing whistle/direction lever - very good condition. There was one photo showing the top/front and it did look to be in good shape.
When package arrived, I found that it had a large crack in the back of the case running up almost to the top with the resulting piece somewhat pushed in. Also the cord was in such bad shape that the bare metal wire was showing.
My contention to the seller is that an item that is advertised as in very good condition, should at least be functional with the exception of stated flaws. What I got was not even safe to plug in, let alone use. I requested a refund of $30, but was offered $15.
I’m going to return the item Monday; all I’ll be out will be the cost of shipping back. Am I being unreasonable?
What is CG? I expected the cost of the handle to be $3-5 and I can get the cord for $8-10 but I don’t know the condition of the “innards”. I don’t want to start pouring money down a rat hole. I thought it best to cut my losses and move on with other options. Thanks for your comment, though.
The missing whistle lever, and the crack near the terminals, are both signs of the case having been removed for whatever reason. Also, check to see if the rivet in the center of the control lever/knobs has been tampered with, replaced, or missing. Is the round “L” insignia still in place? or has it been glued back in place (missing rivet)?
Personally, I’d keep it and fix it. I’ve been in a similar situation twice this summer with my 2020 and 2332. Leave the seller appropriate feedback due do the hidden defects.
I understand your thinking. What would you say a KW in this condition was worth assuming nothing else was wrong with it?
In the past I think I’ve spent too much repairing what looked like a good deal. I would have been better off buying something in better condition to start with. I’m trying to learn from my past bad decisions.
Getting out of this for the cost of shipping gives a fixed cost of the lesson. Keeping it may have a much higher price tag. Thanks for your thoughts.
I was looking at completed listings, and if it was under $50, I’d say go ahead and fix it. Trust me, I’ve gotten burned with a much higher price. The 2020 was $125 and required $56 to complete and the 2332 was $268 and required $31 to complete. Both were worth the investment in the end.
Unless you have tested it and know all voltages are there and correct I would send it back. Because the cord is bad you cannot test, nor could the seller. The cracked case can be repaired but I would junk it. Not worth a fire or ending up with junk after you invest more money into it.
I don’t know what the terms of sale were in this particular auction but I think a good rule of thumb is, if the seller of anything on any auction website doesn’t offer a full refund if the buyer isn’t satisfied, for valid reasons, of course; namely, incorrect description or grading, then something’s wrong with the item. This sounds pretty cynical, but let’s face it, if a seller DOESN’T offer a full refund or return policy, then something is probably being hidden from the bidder/prospective buyer. Very often you will see terms like “selling as is”, “selling for a friend or relative” , “just found in an attic or basement”, or “I picked these items up at an estate sale”. Often the grading on these items is not even close. My advice, distance yourself from this kind of transaction.
What is CG? I expected the cost of the handle to be $3-5 and I can get the cord for $8-10 but I don’t know the condition of the “innards”. I don’t want to start pouring money down a rat hole.
GC is General Cement.
A transformer can go bad in two ways. One is a break in the windings and you’ll get no voltage out of it. The other is a short in the windings and large currents will flow inside the transformer and cook it. The particular varnish used on transformer windings has a distinct and lingering odor once the transformer cooks. We used to call it Allen Bradley pipe tobacco… Allen Bradley made resistors that also smelled when burnt.
I happen to be a big fan of older transformers. Heavy iron core and lots of copper…carbon rollers pick off the variable voltage. I don’t like the modern silicon switching stuff. My KW’s and ZW’s have worked for 50+ years with only cord and roller replacements.
I know transformer prices have dropped in recent years and your skill level and understanding of the innards may be a factor. I only offered alternatives to sending it back.
Good news, I think. The seller has offered a $30 credit which I’m going to take rather than return to him which would have cost about $15 out of pocket, not to be recovered.
I’m going to open her up this afternoon and replace the cord. I’ll post some images and ask for help too. Hope this is the right thing to do. At any rate, it will be an adventure for me and maybe for you too, vicariously.
I replaced the cord & rollers and tried to clean up the coils which had the rub marks form the old rollers. Used “PureTronics” contact cleaner from All Electronics to remove some of the build up.
When I plugged her in, the voltages all checked out ok within less that a ½ volt variance of what they should be. But when I hooked the KW up to the track, my 2025 would hardly budge. It just barely moved forward, then neutral, then reverse with another slight movement.
I suspect some “cold solder” joints in the KW introducing too much resistance. You can see from the images that whoever did some repairs must not have had a powerful enough soldering iron/gun. Much of the solder is lumpy and otherwise looks un-good.
Does that make sense? How do I track down something like that? What else could it be?
With the locomotive trying to run, check the voltage both at the track and at the transformer. That will tell you whether it is the fault of the transformer or the wiring between it and the track.
The circuit breaker was not tripped if that is what you are asking. With no load the voltages were good and with the engine on the track, its headlight worked all the time. There just didn’t seem to be enough “power” (i.e., amps?) to get it moving a a decent clip. How would you check a circuit breaker that was not open? Have you seen a CB cause this type problem?
Yes, I’ve been into Lionel transformers before. I’ve replaced power cords, reattached leads to the output lugs, cleaned, replaced rollers & pins, etc. My experience has been maintenance oriented, not touble shooting like this.
What Bob said would be my first move. Is there 18+ volts at posts A-U?, B-U, at full throttle? You are using them right? Maybe a dumb question, but are you sure the Engine you are trying has a good E unit? If you can get the 18 volts at the transformer and out at the track, it should run unless there is something loose that breaks contact under load. Try both A-U and B-U. The circuit breaker is a well known trouble maker on old KW 's. It could be opening and sounds to me like it may be.
My suggestion is the same as before. Put the locomotive on the track with the voltage turned up. Measure the voltage at the track. Measure the voltage at the transformer. See whether they are the same or reasonably close.
There’s 18+ volts at the U-A terminals. The 2025 engine and track both work fine with my 125watt LW. I’ll check the voltage at the track with the KW next as you suggest.
If the circuit breaker is flaky would I still be getting the proper voltage at the terminal post but not on the track when there is a load? Is there a safe way to bypass the circuit breaker for testing purposes?
