LIRR + snow = delays/disaster => no surprise here [2c]
The real surprise is the MTA reactivating the South Ferry loop on the 1-Line… a ride through the reactivated Loop is a must for any subway fan.
LION:
Here is some information from the MTA website linked on TRAINS Newswire
From The WEBsite:
"…MTA Long Island Rail Road will cancel seven and divert one of the 128 trains it normally provides during the PM rush hour this evening because of a track outage caused by Monday night’s derailment west of Forest Hills Station in Queens.
Due to the extensive damage resulting from the derailment of a non-passenger train, it is estimated that the track repair will take several more days. Customers should expect some AM and PM peak cancellations through Friday.
Crews have re-railed two of the four cars that derailed, but all must be re-railed and removed before track work can fully commence.
Approximately 3,700 feet of track was damaged on one of the LIRR’s crucial four main tracks between Jamaica and Penn Station, thus limiting the Railroad’s ability to run its normal compliment of rush hour trains.
LIRR crews are working around-the-clock and readying equipment so that the process of removing and replacing damaged track, running rail and electrified third rail can begin. The job will also require the use of a specialized concrete track-laying machine that will remove and replace some 1,600 damaged ties. Once the new concrete ties are in place, the running rails
More Video…
No kidding.
I looked at the video and thought to myself, given the emphasis on safety and what I thought were pretty stringent rules and procedures for travelling through a work zone, as well as estimating the clearances between tracks on both sides of the derailment work site, those trains passing by certainly didn’t appear to be travelling at restricted speed or anything close to it as they pass the workers.
What sort of protection would these workers have in a situation such as this on a busy commuter railroad, beyond working at off peak periods when traffic would be less frequent on adjacent tracks. Does anyone know what sort of rules or procedures LIRR has in place for such circumstances.
I’m sure there must be something.
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
Well, I think the trains were slowed down. Usually they do 80 past there. As long as they keep on their own track, the opposing trains will not reach out to grab them. I wonder what the poor mudchicken thinks of all this. The job is a 24/7 job, but then this is a 24/7 railroad and is the main line between NYC and Long Island.
But yeah… it does not look good. If you step out onto the wrong track at the wrong time it does not matter if the train is running at 10 mph or 50 mph.
They do have flagmen out, but they were not visible in this shot.
ROAR
Video makes it look faster than actual. Probably down to @20 or 25 which is slow compared to the 70 they are allowed there.
I do not know the LI RR’s rules.
On my carrier there would be train messages issued to all trains operating on the specific territory. The train message would designate a specific employee that must be contacted on the radio to receive authority to operate past the site. The designated employee would specify what speed each train must observe - anything from 10 MPH to track speed as specified by the designated employee (who would designate that speed depending upon what was taking place at the time). The designated employee could also withhold giving passing trains authority to pass if their passing would create a dangerous situation for employees involved in the rerailing or track repair.
It seems like the situation is under control and operating and no one is getting killed or injured and that wht is happening is SOP. Professionals doing their jobs safely and efficiently in the cabs an on the ground.
I’m quite sure this was and is the case and that they would have SOP’s of some kind. I was curious about what they might be and therefore how LI RR would actually protect track and re-railing work in what is obviously a busy 70 mph 4 track section of a NYC commuter railroad.
Thank you all.
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
Charlie,
LIRR operates under the NORAC rule book, and from what I can gather from the book, the foreman of the work crew would have issued a form D through the dispatcher, instructing all trains entering the work area to confirm they have received a copy of the form D, which sets limits of authority for movement and speed, and instructing them to contact him, (foreman in charge) for permission to pass.
He could issue a no pass order then, or a speed restriction, or simply tell them to come a running, it falls on him to have his crew out of the way if so.
The equivalent GCOR rule are numbers 15.1, 15.2 and 15.2.1, all concerning track bulletins and protection of workers.
April 7, 2010
15.1 Track Bulletins
Track bulletins must not be changed unless specified by Rules 15.1.1 (Changing Address of Track
Warrants or Track Bulletins) or Rule 15.13 (Voiding Track Bulletins). The train dispatcher will issue track
bulletins as required. Track bulletins will contain information on all conditions that affect safe train or
engine movement. Forms other than track bulletin Forms A and B may be used when necessary.
Receipt and Comparison of Track Bulletins
The conductor and engineer must receive a track warrant at their initial station unless otherwise instructed
by the train dispatcher. All track bulletins that affect their train’s movement must be listed on the track
warrant, unless the track warrant shows “NONE” or “NO.” The conductor and engineer must have copies
of all track bulletins listed and other instructions required. Each crew member must read and understand
them.
All crew members are responsible for complying with the requirements of track bulletins and reminding
each other of those requirements.<
Thaks Ed
Appreciate the summary and the rules applying…
So what basically NORAC is saying is that control of train passage on adjacent track(s) rests with Track Foreman, Dispatcher and track authority documents specific to the situation. TF controls movement based on Form D or B authority he has issued and then grants by Form D or B so issued, specific permission to pass to trains crews who have been required to view and acknowledge same by restating this authority to the dispatcher and foreman.
Sounds like it would work well.
Kind of like a ‘heavyweight dance’ of sorts…making sure all partners get the steps right.
Charlie
Neither LIRR nor Metro North Railroad come under NORAC. Metro North did sit at the first organizing meeting of NORAC, but then dropped out. LIRR did sit at the table, but never adopted NORAC.
Obvioulsy LIRR trains operating west of Harold Tower would be on AMTK property and would follow NORAC rules there, but not out in Rego Park.
Conversly, AMTK crews operating on the tracks belonging to Metro North would have to follow the Metro North rule book, and would have to be crtified for the tracks that they use. A crew certified for the Hudson Line, might not be also certified for the New Haven Line.
When football trains to the Meadowlands run from New Haven, they must use NJT equipment because Metro North equipment cannot run on LIRR type third rail nor on the 25 cycle power provided by AMTK below New Rochelle, where as NJT equipment can run on 25 cycle or 60 cycle power.
AMTK locomotives cannot enter the tunnels to Grand Centeral Terminal because they do not have escape hatches on the nose of the locomotive, nor are AMTK locomotives compatible with Metro North Third Rail. AMTK locomotives can and do operate into Penn Station where they run on LIRR type third rail. Metro North locomotives cannot go to Penn Station because they cannot run on LIRR type third rail.
Metro North has receintly developed a universal shoe that can work on their own third rail or that of the LIRR, and these might be used if MNRR traffic should eve
Of course rules and equipment are two separate items of differences and are not necessarily equal.
However, I think both LIRR and MNRR are using NORAC rules with Form D’s, etc. The LIRR has moved to NORAC from the CODE over the last couple of years and I don’t believe the use the timetable and train orders for authority any more, the last train orders having been written and issued late last year. New signalning on both railroads coupled with the NORAC rules are the way the operate now.
Me thinks new signal heads have been put in place on LIRR and the last towers are no longer doing orders, but I do not think that the railroad adopted NORAC even if the signal system is in some sort of compliance. The LIRR cab signals are somewhat unique, albeit old PRR stuff, and MNCR has its own cab signal system.
I think these railroads still have their own rulebooks.
ROAR
A former co-worker worked for NY&A (the freight operator) for a spell. When he was there, LIRR had their own rulebook, etc. He said it was completely different than the GCOR he was used to.
I believe they have switched to GCOR since then.
I think so, too, especially since they abandoned the train order system about a year or so ago.
Are you sure about the nose door restriction?
http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/22893-old-photos-of-amtrak-in-grand-central/
IIRC Metro North runs P32’s into Grand Central.
Rgds IGN