I recently drove about 6 hours on the interstate, most of the time paralleling the BNSF mainline from Poertland to Seattle. It made me wonder, with all these 4000 HP wide cap behemoths wandering the mainline’s today, what kind of power will be performing the switching and local duty 20 years from now. It’s easy to go to any branch line and see a couple of faithful GP38’s or GP40’s running a light local service. Maybe it’ll even be a SW1200. But we all know these things won’t last forever, especially as they begin to cost more and more to operate.
So in 20 years will I be in an industrial area and see the (now old and retiring) C40-8 doing the switching? There is a short UP branch line a few blocks away from me that serves a shipping area in North Portland, usually the daily train is headed by a couple of tired SW’s. What will happen years from now when the only old locos availible are some SD70 MAC’s Let’s face it, for a local job that involves some switching, and just about everything else you really can’t beat a faithful old Geep. In addition, I assume most smaller local lines don’t have the engineering or capacity to handle the immense size and weight of a Dash 9.
Are railroads going to soon demand remanufactur of 4 axle trucks in some lighter and more agile locomotives? Are they just going to have to deal with sending out a Dash 9 for switching? Will EMD and GE do anything to greatly preserve the life of still operating locomotives suitable for the task? I don’t know much about railroad so this may be a stupid question, but I was just curious. Thanks.
Top o’ the morning,
Interesting question. It seems to me that Trains magazine made mention a few months back about EMD building some new switchers for one of the RR’s. As I recall, they said that it was the first light-switching power of this type built in maybe 10 or 15 yrs.
I just looked at the EMD (General Motors Electro Motive Divsion) website. EMD is one of the 2 big locomotive builders, along with GE as their main competitor. They do show 2 switchers in the current catalog. I have no idea how well they are selling though. Here’s the link to their site. http://www.gmemd.com/en/locomotive/switcher/index.htm
Hi Airdrum and Dblstack,
The switcher you see in the EMD catalog is a MK1500D and the MK2000D, manufactored under agreement for EMD by Bosie Locomotive, (Morrison Knudson).
I work at the PTRA, one of the first switching railroad to use the MK1500D exclusivly.
Great motors for switching, engineers love being able to see so much out of them.
The old MK1500D had a catapiller diesel, the new ones, sold as GP15s and GP20s, have the EMD engine.
Class one are slowly getting away from running locals, or switching crews.
They perfer, and encourage short lines and switching railroad to do that part for them.
As time goes by, you will see a lot of short lines, regional and terminal/belt road buy rebuilt GP38s, the market is just right from someone to begin rebuilding them from the frame up, new electrical, so forth and so one.
But the big guys dont want the bother and hassel of doing local switching anymore, they are concentrating on the longer haul work, and leaving the short, local industrial switching to guys like us.
Stay Frosty,
Ed
Down my way, CSX locals use whatever’s handy in the yard be it SD40-2s, Dash 8, Dash 9s, or AC4400s. It looks kind of strange to see a AC4400 pulling a single covered hopper.
I know this will re-kindle the EMD vs. GE thread, but it is interesting to note that in the discussions of which is better, the common theme is that EMD units while more costly, seem to be rebuilt and continue on in helper and branchline service much more so than GEs. Just as the 38s and 40s do now, it seems logical that unless a “new” smaller unit is produced, like the GP15s, rebuilt or soon to be rebuilt/retired road units of today will be assuming the role. Kind of overkill for some branch lines but if it’s all that’s available, that will be it.
Didn’t UP just buy some GP15’s for use in switching in the Houston area? I think I remember seeing that somewhere… they would some of the first new switcher purchases by a Class 1 in since the late 80s wouldn’t it?
Didnt buy, but leased from CEFX about 20 units overall, half "GP15s, the other half "GP20s 1500 HP and 2000 HP units.
Nice units, they are both switchers, in the true sense of the word, and are also set up to be road units, with better traction than the older GP38s.
Stay Frosty
Ed
I forsee that in that time, these switchers now can be kept alive with maintainence as was so many steam locos for the tourist lines do.I feel that using a 4400 to switch is farfetched due to the GP model or GE switcher will take quite a while to phase out.
I can picture seeing Dash 8s, in 20 years, in switcher service. Railroads aren’t bashful about using any available old power that can do the job. On a couple of occasions, the Santa Fe used a B23-7 for switcher duty at the Emporia, Ks yard. The crew didn’t like it because it didn’t have the drawbar swing like that of the GP20s, GP7s, and GP9s, but it was available.
In 20 years you wont see any dash 9 units switching. they dont last that long. the NS rr is rebuilding its gp38 engines they are cutting off the high short nose to resemble the gp 60 and are beefing them up adding air conditioning and renumbering them in the 5500 series as sd38. ( this is why you are not seeing many 2700 and 2800 series jeeps) it seems like they are going to keep these units around for many years to come
Here in Spartanburg, SC, CSX already uses AC44’s in switching and local work. In fact, it’s rare to see a CSX unit around here that isn’t a 4000±HP six-axle GE, so they use them for everything.
NS has more variety. Usual local power is a SD40 or GP38. But I’ve seen SD70’s on NS way freights, too. They run what they have on hand.
What 20 years from now?? Here in Binghamton NY, NS is using C40s for their local power on a regular basis, and has been as long as they’ve had this part of the former CR empire. They use C40s for everything, even work trains. I’ve seen them put a C40-or an SD 70, but they’re not that common in local service here-on tracks that CR restricted to 4 axle units, daily. NS has done some trackwork to bolster the Vestal Spur-the former DL&W main to help keep the big units on the rails.
Actually, environmental regulations may force the railroads to invest in new locomotives for local and switching service. The “Green Goat” experiment is part of this development.
It was amusing to read in, IIRC, the May 2003 issue of Trains, a report announcing the end of the yard switcher, and then on the following Sunday, read in the Chicago Tribune that the environmental regulators are now looking at emissions from yard switch engines, and that sometime in the next twenty years, the railroads are going to have to replace older equipment with machines that emit less noxious fumes. And rebuilt geeps may not be up to this mission.
Moreover, as I see it, some of the latest road power does not lend itself to switching. I wonder if we are reaching in diesel technology the point that steam reached towards the end: the large road power was too big to be downgraded to secondary service, and the 2-8-4s, 4-8-2s, 4-8-4s, and the 2-10-4s went to the scrap line, while fifty-year old 2-8-0s and smaller 2-8-2s survived for another five years or so in secondary service.
If the rebuild trend continues in the vein that it has in the past, I expect to see rebuilt GP50s and 60s doing most of the local work. It seems that the older GE units don’t lend themselves to rebuilding as well. But I agree that railroads will use whatever is available, for instance CSX relies on a local shortline to switch the industries on the CSX line here.
The railroads have a lot of rebuild fodder out there. I think that 38’s will be around for a long time, heck you can deturbo a 40 and make a good switcher. And with Boise and LTE and the like you have the know how if the railroads get out of the major rebuild business, and they seem to want to. The future is six axle power for the road and rebuild for everything else. I used to get wide cab on the locals and boy did you feel special with a $2.5 million dollar Dash-9 with one boxcar. Talk about cost savings:-)
I second the motion. Local power doesn’t use enough fuel and you certainly can’t reduce the number of units one a one locomotive local - so you’ll never justify replacement with new power. As long as you can get past the EPA emissions laws, the GPs will be around forever (or until fuel cells become reality).
Whatever is out in the backtracks in 20 years will be:
(1) Light
(2) 4-Axle
(3) Relatively low HP (no need for speed, plenty of juice for traction motors)
(4) will have to watch adhesion (protect old rail & ties)
(5) Will have a potty & washstand on board (FRA Rule)
(6) Will not be allowed to idle when not in use
(7) will have more crew room
(8) will be quieter