OK, you can tell from the number of posts that I am pretty inexperienced, but I have all my track laid (and one working locomotive) and I have installed 13 tortoise switch machines so I am not totally inept, but when it comes to locomotives and electronics, well I need some help. I have two problems, but I start with the one for now.
I have a P2K Alco S1 that I have modified according to the instructions on Randy Rinkers web site. When I finished with it all I put it on the Zephyr programming track and was actually able to read the address and program a new address into the decoder. I was shocked and pretty proud of myself. I put the loco on the real track to see how she ran - but she didn’t. It made no sound at all like it was not getting any juice.
This is a brand new engine (I neglected to test run it in analog mode) so I figure I either must have put the wires back incorrectly or maybe my solder job on the orange wire is bad.
Please, someone with knowledge and experience - HELP!
If it’s indeed getting no juice - no lights, no movement, no sound - and you know the mainline track is live, the first guess is that there’s an addressing problem, i.e., the address that the Zephyr is talking to is not the same address in the decoder. My second guess would be that track power is not turned on. I don’t know about the Zephyr, but the other Digitrax systems do not turn on track power by default, even though it looks like the system is active and ready to go.
I have installed a few drop in decoders and three out of eight locos had shorts. So open it up and think about all possibilities and reinstall with that in mind. I had most of my problems with the motor tabs touching the frame. Sometimes they would program but I would not get power to the motor.
The track power was on because I changed addresses and ran my one good engine, and
After trying the S1 with no luck I put it back on the programming track and did a read of the address and it was the one I was using when I tried to run it for real.
You say you can read the address on the programming track. Does the S1 move on the programming track when you power it up with your Zephyr? If so then my guess is that you may still be at address “3” and your long address didn’t take. Also, does your S1 “skootch” forward 2 or 3 times when your Zephyr acknowledges the decoder? Sorry to ask such basic questions but it’s best to get the obvious outta the way first. [:)]
With my Super Empire Builder, another Digitrax product, and the DT 400 throttle, unless I dial in the new address on the throttle, and then click the encoder to activate that throttle, I get no response, at least from QSI decoders. Also, how much throttle are you giving it? Sometimes the engines need extra juice to get going once you use it on a DCC circuit, so instead of moving right away, it may not move until setting 7 or more.
Also, with my system (which is the oldest model for Digitrax), when I program the address in Page Mode, and enter the new address, the whole system beeps and appears to shut down. In reality, as Tom suggests, it merely suspends power to the track, and you must do the restoration. Also, and this is on my SEB, remember, if you input an extended address, you may have to set another CV value for that address to be recognized by the system. In my case, I manually exit after the address input, restore power, and then set CV 29 to a value of 38, but this time in Ops Mode. Even then, my QSI’s won’t respond until I do what I stated at the top of this post. It is like the decoder sulks after imposing a new address on it, and won’t come out to play unless you roll your eyes, sigh, and read off its whole new name.
And to go along with what Crandell was saying. Tonight I reset one of my Lenz decoders to the original factory settings. (Changed CV8 to “33” and - Presto! Chango! - reset!) I went through the programming ritual, set my short and long address but the decoder wouldn’t read the long address. It was there in the memory but it wouldn’t read it. [%-)] Turned out that I needed to change bit 5 in CV29 from “0” to “1” in order to get the long address. Works just fine now. [:)]
On my Lenz DCC system, I’ve found that I can’t even read and write the locomotive address if the motor isn’t connected properly. So, that may indicate that your wiring is in fact all right.
Can you turn on the lights? You need to first enter the address, and then press F0. The lights should toggle with direction. With DCC, lights don’t come on automatically when you power up - you must turn them on, which of course means that you have the option to turn them off.
Try re-addressing the locomotive to address 4. A couple of people have mentioned “long” and “short” addresses. If you are setting the locomotive to an address above 99, there may be an address mode problem.
When you were installing this one, I think you said you were putting in a DH163. Is that right? Also, what address are you setting the decoder to?
That’s true f pretty much any decoder - they pulse the motor to generate a current load to acknowledge program values. Without a motor load or equivalent, you will seldom be able to read back CV values or get an acknowledgement of and values sent - the deocder will still take the programming values, but the command station won’t be able to say if it did or not.
This leads to the wiring probably being correct. The S1 has very low current draw, and mine pulses noticeably on the program track while programming - does this happen for you? Something may be keeping the motor from turning. If the brush came out when you soldered on the new orange wire - it may not have seated properly, with the curve matching the commutator. It might run like that but it would be poorly since there would be very little brush contact.
It’s not too late to test run on DC - unless you’ve changed the setting in CV29, the DH163 decoders do automatic analog conversion and will run fine on DC power.
Another option to try - program CV08 to 08 for a decoder reset. It could be that there are some odd settings in the decoder that need to be cleared. Then try running it as address 03.
What address are you trying to use? With Digitrax, any address 127 and under is a ‘short’ address, anythign higher is a long address, and CV29 has to be set accordingly (should program automatically when you select AD2 or AD4 on the Zephyr when programming, at least with a Digitrax decoder). But there’s no check that stops you from entering, say 25 under AD4 - and it won’t run! This is why I suggest the reset.
My address for this loco is 54 the last two digits of the engine number and I’m positive it was set use the A2 address.
I hear absolutely nothing on the real track, no hum whir, like it’s completely dead.
I will try and reset everything, but this was a brand new loco with a brand new decoder from Loy’s Toys.
What if I put the orange wire where the red should be or the gray where the balck should be, or all the above? I thought it was possible I did this.
Also, I was a little concerned about the solder for the orange wire. Does it matter if you use soild or stranded wire?
I have been playing with changing CV’s on my good engine and I think I’m pretty sure I know how to use the Zephyr correctly. I am much more sure about using the DCC system than I am about my ability to put everything back together correctly on the loco.
Is the cover still off the engine? If so, examine the decoder carefully. Look for “burn through” marks on the blue plastic - small pinhead-sized black spots. If you have one of these, you may have fried a decoder function, or worse. (And how do I know this information, you ask?)
You can put a meter on the locomotive while it’s on the tracks. The voltage across the track should be around 12-16 volts AC. This should show up on the red and black wires to the decoder. The lights should get about 12 volts DC at the decoder, lower at the light if you use a limiting resistor. (Blue to yellow or blue to white.) The motor will get a DC voltage which varies with speed, up to about 16 volts. (Orange to gray.)
Another simple thing to try is to pull the decoder from its socket and put it back in. I’ve had a couple of cases of problems that were cured by simply re-seating the decoder.
Again, does the locomotive work (i.e. move backwards and forwards) on your programming track if you press forward and/or reverse and increase the speed? Once you program your decoder correctly, you should be able to run it on your programming track just like you would on your mainline. If it doesn’t run, then it’s either not really programmed or there is an issue with the decoder (or the wiring thereof). Just trying to narrow it down…
It won’t run on the program track, not with a Zephyr or any system with a dedicated program track output.
I doubt the orange/grey and red/black wires are mixed up - it would never have programmed like that. The track feed must be to the red/black wires. It’s possible the orange/grey are shorted, it MIGHT still program and read back in that situation.
It doesn;t matter if you used solid or stranded wire, although solid is more prone to breakage. But again, if the orange wire is not physically connected because of a break, it won;t program or read back because there would be no load on the decoder when it tried to acknowledge the program commands.
Just because it is a brand new decoder doesn’t mean it might ot have odd stuff in memory, either ‘just because’ or a remnent of factory testing. I doubt they test 100% of the decoders coming off the line, probably just a sampling. I haven’t had to reset any of mine out of the package yet, but I tend to do it before programming anyway, just in case.
Does it make any ticks or whirs when programing or reading the address? If the shell is off you should definitely see the motor armature jerk, if the whole thing doesn’t actually move (mine does - but other brands of locos do not - it all depends on the motor and gearing, the more efficient motors will be able to move under the low power of the program pulses while less efficient ones will not)
[%-)] Would you please explain your comment? [%-)] I have a piece of 3’ long track on some 1 x 3 that I use as my programming track so that it it both isolated and portable. After I program my decoder, I can run my locomotive on it just fine. Thanks.
I think he means that if your programming track leads are placed into a dedicated set of programming receptacles on your track output device,there should not be enough power from those two wired receptacles to move a loco, only enough to set CV’s.
That said, Randy, the DB 150 has two power inputs, two rail outsputs (A and B), and two outputs called “Config A and Config B”. I don’t recall, but are the latter meant to be programming track outputs? The fellow at Soundtraxx said they were in a telecon last spring.
Got it. [D)] I forgot about that aspect. That would explain why I can run locomotives on my programming track because the Power Cab doesn’t have separate programming receptacles like Digitrax does. I divert the power to an isolated programming track with a selector switch then go into programming mode to program the locomotive. Only after I press PROG/ESC am I able to run the locomotive on the programming track. That way I can test the unit right then and there to see that it is working properly before putting it back on the layout.
Just remember to go into program mode (or at least have track power off) when setting a new loco on the track, otherwise you defeat the purpose of putting the loco ont he program trak first (the point of that being the current is limited and won’t fry the decoder int he event of a wiring mistake. If it won’t program - it’s probably miswired so do NOT put it on the main until the problem is fixed).
With systems having a dedicated program track output (Digitrax Chief and Zephyr, Lenz, CVP, NCE PHPro, etc) there’s nothing to think about, just put a new loco on the program track first. With the PowerCab and Digitrax SEB, keep the power off on your program track segment and be sure to be in program mode before throwing the toggle to allow power to the program track.
I put it on the track and played with it some more. What I found was that if I gave the motor a little Help - spinned it a little - the loco woudl move forward very slowly - even with the throttle turned up. When I came to a stop and tried to give it power again it would not move - until I spinned it a little agian.