Also, is it a big price difference between an unmodified GP9 and say a paducah built GP10?
I’ve seen GP38-3’s, did anyone try fooling with the new traction technology with a GP9 rebuild? or would it even help? heh. Always new spins on old reliable tech.
Does a GP9 even need traction controll? I have heard many people say the GP9s and SD9s were a perfect balance between wieght and power (adheasion).
The biggest difference would be the condition of the wiring, both control and high voltage. In the 1950s, the insulation wasn’t very long lasting. After 10 or 15 years, it would really start to go. Since the 1970s, the wiring insulation has generally been more durable and long lasting.
The rest of what makes a GP8/10 vs 7/9 is some minor upgrading of components such as air filters and exhaust manifold, removal of dyn brk and a 50 -100 HP tweak of the governor.
Alot of older GP-9s were rebuilt to GP-15-1 specs , yes a new twist on an already good locomotive.
Randy
IC was the only one to build GP8s, GP10s, and GP11s. A GP8 is built from a GP7. The nose was chopped, prime mover rebuilt and maybe some electrical work. Cosmeticly there were differences on the roof.
GP10s were built from GP9s- they pretty much recieved the same treatment as a GP8s Their roofs differed from GP8s however.
A GP11 is a GP10 rebuilt w/ an EMD -2 electrical system. Some stayed in service until in late 1990s.
Here are pics GP8 GP8s were built in the 1970s.
GP10 They were built in the 1970s.
GP11 they were built around 1980.
Well I wasn’t sure. I have heard it said that a GP38 had better adhesion.
Well I’ve also seen GP9u’s, GP16 rebuilds and there was milwaukees GP20’s rebuilt from GP9’s as well.
There is a difference in price. Not that I can float the ca***o buy a unit of my own, it has always intrested me. Much of the differences in price between the used units I’ve seen is related to their overall condition. It would be difficult these days to find a used GP9 that hasn’t been rebuilt in some way. Dynamic Braking, air brake style, electrical system configuration all play a part in the price equation.
Conrail had GP8s and GP10s rebuilt by both Morrison Knuedson and ICG. Precsion National and BN also had GP10s rebuilt by ICG. BNs other GP9s were rebuilt to GP28s by MK, after 3 demo units were done by EMD as BL20-2s. GTW ordered GP11 style cabs from ICG when they rebuilt their Geeps in the late 80s, and Milwaukee Road’s GP20s were rebuilt with 645 engines.
Just in case anyone has some bucks to blow from their tax return:
http://railforce.com/sales-GP8-locomotive.htm
BN’s GP10s were built by BN at the West Burlington shops, NOT by ICG
as stated. They were originally GP7s-mostly of GN heritage, with a couple
of ex-NP locomotives thrown in. The program on the BN was called CLRP-
for Capital Locomotive Rebuild Program. The program also rebuilt 4 old
NW2s into what BN termed "NW12"s. The recession in the late 70s put
an end to the program. The GP10s were, at first, referred to as GP7us.
They were in the 1400-1426, 1438 series and the NW12s were numbered
1, 5, 14 and 19.
Yeah I had seen that listing Eric [8D]. Silly me I spent tax money on a new tv (that old 18inch had to go). I’m not used to seeing GP8’s without the paducah air filter hunchback. Very Missouri Pacific resemblence paint scheme too.
I’d be interested to know what M-K did to GP9s to turn them into GP28Ms. Seems to be a reasonable ‘intermediate’ stage between GP8/10 and GP38-3s?
Are these rebuild GP28’s the same as the origional GP28’s like Chicago Central had? 1800hp with a look of a cross of GP35 & GP28? I’m supposeig that besides the exterior look the GP28 must have had different wiring then the GP18.
My bad with the BN Gp10 thing. They were rebuilt at West Burlington Shops.
The new GP28Ms look like shorter versions of the GP38-2. I guess they kind of look like an old GP28, but they look more modern and have dynamic brakes.
http://www.trainpix.com/BN/EMDRBLD/GP28M/1503.HTM
Here are some original GP28s
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=98777
The original GP28s weren’t much more than a GP18 in a spartan body, but probably all had the traction motors and air brake systems of a GP35.
I’m not sure what MK did to the remaining GP9s to make the GP28s. It looks like the frame, and trucks were retained. I’d venture a bet that they have Dash-2 electricals, and its 567 power assemblies were upgrated to 645s. Looks like a brandnew cab and carbody. Someone told me once that EMDs BL20-2s were the basis for the design, and that MK lowballed EMD on the bid, but I’m not sure if I believe that.
Tormdel, I think the TV was probably a wiser investment. $80 Grrr seems a little steep, even in today’s cash for a rebuilt Geep. Used 6 axle power seems to be selling for less these days than 4 axle power.
Here is what M-K did to the GP9s, GP9Ms, and GP18s to turn them into BN GP28Ms. The body was completely removed and scrapped. The frame was stripped down complete, checked for cracks, and had anticlimbers welded on. The diesel engine was completely stripped down to a bare crankcase , and line bored. It was strengthened to take 645 power assemblies. Then it was built-up with new and remanufactured parts as appropriate to a 645D configuration. The Main Generator was removed and replaced with a remanufactured AR10 Alternator. The 24RL air brake system was removed and replaced with a modular 26LUM airbrake system and the main reservoir cleaned and recertified. The main electrical cabinet was removed and replaced with a M-K built X-series cabinet fitted with an improved Dash-2 modular system. All wiring was replaced.
All new bodywork was fabricated, a remanufactured radiator of the GP38 type was installed along with remanufactured 48" cooling fans, a new dynamic brake hatch was installed. The trucks were stripped and inspected and new springs installed along with remanufactured D78B traction motors. And a new fuel tank was built. Except for having a short frame and the 645D engine you have a late model GP38-2. This was a much more extensive rebuild than the Paducah GP11s. The EMD BL20-2s were a different rebuild retaining a 567 engine.
The GP30 and GP35 rebuilds are classified as GP39M,E, or V depending upon which company rebuilt it.
M for Morrison-Knudsen
E for EMD
V for VMV Paducah
I wish I was able to find more hard facts on what things are going for. I have seen some (including railswap) but it all seems like a drop in the bucket for what must really be out there.
The BN GP28M’s (1500-1539) and GP28P’s (1590-1599) were rebuilt variously from GP9’s, GP9M’s (the 1350 HP GN versions from EMD using parts from FT’s) and GP18’s. The GP28P’s also have bus lines for service as rotary snowplow power units.