I am having traction trouble with my P42 Genesis climbing a 2.5% grade. Yes, I know it’s a bit aggressive, but given that this is what I am working with what is the best way to increase traction? Has anyone used Bullfrog Snot? thanks for the feedback.
Capt Wilb
It’s my understanding that Bullfrog Snot is for replacing worn out or missing traction tires and not for a loco that didn’t have them to begin with. Wheels on such locos are grooved for the traction tire. If you try using it on a wheel that is not grooved, I think you would lose electrical pickup through that wheel.
I think you’ve got it backwards. The way I understand it, Bull Frog Snot is used on a wheel not grooved for a traction tire. It suposedly goes on thin enough to not cause any tracking problem, though I haven’t tried it myself to confirm that. You will, however loose electrical pickup on that wheel, but the same holds true for a traditional traction tire as well.
John.
Okay, here’s the information from the Bullfrog Snot web site in the form of their Frequently Asked Questions:
I understood from the outset, and have demonstrated quite satisfactorily to myself in practise, that the BFS is meant to improve traction…period. I am using it on three different steamers and can only say that the results are pretty darned impressive. My BLI Niagara (which BLI says in their judgement is heavy enough not to warrant the inclusion of traction tires) got the treatment on the two rear drivers. Previously it could haul a Walthers reefer and four long passenger cars (three of them Walthers’ heavyweights) up my 3% grades, but with some minor slipping. After the BFS, the load went to the same reefer and up to seven heavies, and no slipping.
Not too shabby, I’d say.
-Crandell
I have to agree with Selector it’s as close as you can get to pouring sand on the rails. I was a bit skeptical at first but I’m sold on it as well. You know all the issues early Proto H2k Mallets had with not being able to pull worth a hill of beans not anymore.
that is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for, someone who used it. I read the website and they talk about how it must be applied in a very specific way-any problems applying it? thanks
I have used Frog Snot on all my steam engines and on average they have at least doubled the pulling capacity of the engines.
This is good information everyone, thanks. I have a p2K 0-8-0 that can barely pull it’s tender. [:D]
I’ll give it a snot shot.
BTW Geared Steam, I appreciate and completely understand your signature line…
Geared Steam,
I am puzzled by your P2K 0-8-0 that you say does not pull well. I have two of them, one older one without a traction tire and one newer one with.
While the traction tire model does pull better, the pulling power of the non traction tire model is fair to good in my view.
How many cars will it pull? How heavy are those cars? how steep are any grades?
I am in full support of the traction tire/Bullfrogsnot approach, i’m just curious about your situation with this loco since my exeriance is much different.
I have found that by reducing the rolling resistance of my equipment with better trucks/wheelsets, all my locos pull much more. And I do plan to try the Bullfrogsnot on a few of them.
Sheldon
Sheldon, I agree that improving car weights and rolling resistance, plus fixing couplers, goes a huge way to enjoying everything any one loco can give you. Trust me, if you have even one engine that you wish could pull just another two or three cars for you, and you apply the BFS as it is meant (a thin coating that doesn’t have obvious lumps or high spots), you will find that, not two or three, but four or five are distinctly possible. It really works well. It seems to be very durable, too. I don’t have any basis to compare it to your typical traction tire (I don’t run my trains much), but even if it is only have as durable as a traction tire, in ten minutes you can have it restored! Wait another 30 minutes for drying, and you are back in business with a good solid hauler.
-Crandell
I’ve heard wonderful things about the B-S from a lot of guys who have tried it on some of their weaker pullers.
Luckily, most of my steamers are pretty hefty and pull everything that I want them to. However, my main concern with it is that on some lighter brass power, the ‘snot’ would eliminate electrical pickup on a set of drivers, and since brass picks up from only one side of the locomotive–the remainder picking up from the tender–I’m just wondering if the elimination of one set of pickups will overcome the advantage of a ‘traction tire’.
Just wondering, you understand. Seems to me that the Bullfrog Snot is the answer to more contemporary steamers, where the pickup is pretty much ‘all wheel’ between loco and tender, rather than older locos which have to rely on one side of pickup from each.
But for some of these lighter new steamers where the boiler space over the drivers is largely taken up by electronics instead of weight (or balance), the ‘stuff’ sounds like the answer to a prayer.
I’ll tell you though, I sure get a big kick out of the brand name.[:P] AND the advertisement. It’s really clever.
Tom [:)]
So, for the guys that have used B-S, any feedback on how long the stuff lasts, do you have to reapply it from time to time???
Hey Sheldon
I’ve been told a billion times to stop exaggerating! [swg]
Truthfully it isn’t nearly as bad as I claim it is, it is the older version, no traction tires (or electrical pickups on the tender) I added pickups, and it is the smoothest rod loco I have,and I love it, but it slips a little more than I would like pulling 6 MDC 21’ ore cars up a pretty fairly stiff grade (forgive me, I haven’t done the measurements or calculations on the grade %) The layout was built with Shays and Heislers in mind, so my expectations for this 0-8-0 are unrealistic I agree. I plan to add weight inside the smoke box, and I believe Bull Frog Snot will seal the deal. Have you done any modifications to yours? There is a quite lengthy post on another forum concerning this product.
Tom, I get what you are saying 100%. I don’t know if you have ever modified any of your brass so that it picks up more broadly from the two rails as the more modern steamers do, but if you have, then the BFS should improve your hauling performance…no, it will improve your hauling performance, but if it isn’t necessary…
I have the product on one axle, but I don’t see why staggering it between two different axles wouldn’t yield some improved traction and still allow the pickup to work okay. In fact, maybe the two middle axles on a Northern might the the place to split the application to two drivers, and it leaves you the longer wheelbase of pickups if the tender doesn’t also have them…not sure since I have no brass. Thanks, Sunset. [:-^]
-Crandell
Geared Steam,
Mine pulls about 20, 4.5 oz cars on level track with no problem at all. I have not really tested it on any grades and my grades are all less than 2% anyway.
All my rolling stock is equiped with very free rolling trucks.
My traction tire version will pull over 40 of these cars.
Since it is a switcher, it spends it time in a yard that is basicly flat.
I have found the free rolling truck modifications to be of great benifit. I put Kadee trucks on almost all my freight equipment, and I repalce the Kadee wheelsets with Intermountain wheel sets. There are those who say this does not/cannot work, but hundreds of freight cars says it does.
Sheldon
Sheldon
Thanks for the info, I really like the 0-8-0, I had been looking at them for awhile based on this and other forums, the majority of owners really like them. I happened by my local LHS and I noticed he had 6 of the “older” versions for a very good price. I couldn’t resist. [:D]