For a number of years on this and other forums, modelers, including myself have been suggesting that those of us that model from the “Diesel era” late 1950s through the early 2000s (before trains crews started wearing reflective vests) that we need engineers and conductors that are dressed “casually” in sitting and standing positions.
I’ve noticed threads and magazine articles where modelers often run post steam era locomotives such as: GP30s, SD40-2s, Alco RS-12s, E9s, U-Boats, Dash9s, etc…yet the modelers install engineers wearing (guess what?) the striped or plain blue coveralls and traditional hat. Of course it’s our railroad. My point is that for most of us that have been exposed to Class 1 railroads since the late 50s, we’ve typically seen locomotive crews dressed in casual attire. However, there are too few figures available that are dressed as typical diesel era locomotive crew personnel.
Below is the message I sent to Woodland Scenics, followed by WS’s response:
To: Woodland Scenics
RE: HO Model Railroad figures.
Hello. I have enjoyed your products for the past 2 decades and hope that you consider the following suggestion.
not sure if I could shoehorn them into an N scale diesels shell but if they came in N I’d be happy with it. the buildings on the Engine/ car facility section that I will start working on will have plenty of interior details. what better way to start the day than with a briefing.
Thanks so much for sending your well thought out and very detailed product suggestion! I cannot tell you that we will produce these figures, but I will send your request on to our product development department for consideration. They do like to know what modelers are wanting in the way of new products when they are making decisions about what to release in the future.
On another note, I always like to invite modelers to send us photos of their layout and tell us about how did you get into modeling, what do you model, techniques you have discovered, and/or anything else you would like to share about your modeling experience. We have a Customer Success Stories section on our website where I post the photos and stories I receive. We recently updated and redesigned the site, making it easier for modelers to view a wide variety of layouts.
I sent my [2c] worth to Woodland Scenics to support your request. I hope lots of others do too.
One thing I added was to make all the figures in the package seated instead of some seated/some standing. Buying a pack of six when you can only use two for the intended purpose is a bit of a PITA.
I also pointed out their suitability for use in other situations. I really need a bunch of car and truck drivers.
Working from a photo published a decade or so ago in the Sacramento Bee, one of those engineers should be a cute blonde with a pageboy bob dressed in a frilly white blouse and Gucci jeans. (She was dismounting, at Roseville, from the train she had just brought over Donner Summit.)
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with engine crews in black uniforms)
Probably on into the 1970s train crews continued to dress in the same atire worn back in the steam era. However, if you want to change how they look, some paint is all that is needed!
Stop thinking that the manufacturers have to do everything for us!!
I am reading a book written about Minnesota Railroads from the 1940 to present day with many photos of train crews and I see engine crews dressed with Bib overalls and engineer caps in the 1970s and some dressed in plain work clothes. Certainly, your not suggesting that what happened out East, is what happened everywhere?
My guess is, the companies stopped requiring engineers and fireman be dressed in specific cloths and allowed them the choice of what to wear and since many thought bibs and engineer caps worked good in their profession, the decided to stay with them.
Certainly, your not stating what happed out East is what happened everywhere?
Nope…Just stating the facts as I saw them while gainfully employed by PRR and later C&O and for general modeling information.Carman and welders would wear coveralls and bib work clothes for obvious reasons.
BTW…We called the bib overalls,Levi jacket ,banana and engineer hats steam choo-choo clothes.[(-D]
I agree that one could paint over the clothing on currently produced figures, but these old eyes and hands have a difficult time with that, so put me in the group that would like to see them produced. I see that the Norfolk Southern crews here in my area are most often, in the hot summer time, dressed in jeans and T shirt plus sturdy work shoes. If head gear is even worn it is almost always a ‘baseball’ type cap.
1] I don’t think the manufacturers have to do everything for us! If I did, I would have never bothered metalizing passenger equipment myself.
On my “To Do” list: Painting the molded black figures in my P2K locomotives using the Brifayle technique. But I have a long list of passenger cars and locomotives to paint and detail before I get to that point. So, what is wrong with asking a manufacturer to consider producing what we want? Especially if other modelers are interested as well. Why does Woodland Scenics ask modelers to email them suggestions for new products?
2] I understand that perhaps the RR crews in your area may have continued wearing the traditional clothes into the 70s. However, for those of us that live in the south, southeast and southwest US, most crews we saw were dressed casually, although I agree with the poster that stated they wore work/safety shoes.
I was a teen in the 1970s, literally “hung around” friendly railroaders, and enjoyed cab rides in SCL and Amtrak equipment. The way these professionals dressed, even with the work shoes, I doubt that the average person on the street would have been able to identify them as railroaders. The engineer who was very kind to me, that ran Amtrak’s Champion, always wore either a white, tan, or blue short sleeve office type shirt.
3] Have you considered that there are modelers that cannot perform tasks involving working with or man
Indeed…As I mention many times in the past I have limited use of my once dominate right hand and as a result there are some things I can no longer do and that includes detail painting HO figures.I would love to see modern switchmen with yellow,green or orange vest.
I will send a e-mail to WS as the OP suggested and will suggest both styles-with and without safety vest…
Well, since the OP mentioned railroad engineers in the late 1950s, this is as good a place as any to mention the ‘George’ scene from the mid-1950s Union Pacific Safety film “Days of Our Years”, (Taking you back to 2006…
ETA (2):
The Kato Engineers look a lot like the ill-fated UP short George did in the mid-1950s, so that’s pretty good. However, I note that the Yard crew has two engineers (seated, one with beard) in work clothes, two conductors wearing t-shirts and jeans, like they just stepped out of “Untame Youth” or some other late-50s teen epic, and the brakemen…are wearing the dreaded bib overalls (boo!).
ETA (3):
Even I got into the fray (well, you’d figure that) back in the day (2005! Dang, I hate when you remember something you posted a ‘few’ years back…only to find a few is 7 years!). This one started because I complained about the lack of auto-mechanic figures in coveralls (which is what the guys in my area were in the body shops/garages - that or button down shirts/jeans) - coveralls or equivalent because as was pointed out, the buttons and snaps on bib overalls could scratch and gouge paint finishes. Even at that time it seemed Bib overalls for RR workers were more or less memories, but that farm workers, and some other tradesmen would wear b
3] Have you considered that there are modelers that cannot perform tasks involving working with or manipulating small details, such as painting HO or N scale figures? My wife’s cousin, a Vietnam war vet exposed to agent orange, is still an active modeler. His fingers tremble, so on several occasions he asked me to install, move, or manipulate small items on his HO cars and locomotives. Since he can’t paint small figures, he uses what’s available. He models modern day BNSF! His layout is crawling with Dash-9s and SD70Ms. Would you be willing to tell him and other modelers in similar condition that: “Some paint is all that is needed!” ?
4] The Kato figures suggested by Brakie are excellent! But the point of this thread is to suggest that the interested manufacturer produce a variety. The 3 bus passengers I pointed out are, imho, good examples.
Note also the suggestion that since these people would be casually dressed they could be used for other applications besides train crews. Wouldn’t that be a win-win for us? So why do you think that this is an unreasonable request? We have the power to speak loudly with our wallets. If you like-you buy. You don’t like-you don’t buy.
3] Have you considered that there are modelers that cannot perform tasks involving working with or manipulating small details, such as painting HO or N scale figures? My wife’s cousin, a Vietnam war vet exposed to agent orange, is still an active modeler. His fingers tremble, so on several occasions he asked me to install, move, or manipulate small items on his HO cars and locomotives. Since he can’t paint small figures, he uses what’s available. He models modern day BNSF! His layout is crawling with Dash-9s and SD70Ms. Would you be willing to tell him and other modelers in similar condition that: “Some paint is all that is needed!” ?
4] The Kato figures suggested by Brakie are excellent! But the point of this thread is to suggest that the interested manufacturer produce a variety. The 3 bus passengers I pointed out are, imho, good examples.
Note also the suggestion that since these people would be casually dressed they could be used for other applications besides train crews. Wouldn’t that be a win-win for us? So why do you think that this is an unreasonable request? We have the power to speak loudly with our wallets. If you like-you buy. You don’t like-you don’t buy.
As Billy Batson would say: “Holy Moly!” Why do you say “What a load”?
Good grief guy what is your beef and why are you being so defensive? I thought I replied to you cordially but with logic and straight forward reasoning in mind as a fellow model railroader. I’ve enjoyed reading some of your past threads.
“Political Correctness?” My coworkers will tell you that I’m very “old-school” and politically “incorrect”; which sometimes shocks people since I often come off as well mannered.
I pointed my wife’s cousin out as an example of a modeler that would like realistic looking train crew figures but isn’t capable of properly modifying figures (and he has tried). A couple of posters have similar sentiments. So what does “PC” have to do with it? This is an opportunity for Woodland Scenics to increase their profits while making a number of modelers smile.
So how is the modeling portion of this hobby gone just because some of us ask WS to produce some figures? No one is stopping you from painting figures on your own. If you think that the modeling portion of this hobby is gone, then so be it.
But I didn’t think that the “modeling portion” of the hobby was all but gone; especially after I continue seeing photos on posts by Doc Wayne, Sarona Terry, B&O1952, Robby P, Mlehman, and Heartland Division “Garry”.
[quote user=“NP2626”]
I give up! Now, with the single thought that we should maybe do some things
Have to agree with Brakie. I hired in engine service in 1967. Many old heads still wore the traditional steam era clothing, although some wore business suits, including white shirt and tie. By the early 1970s,head covers, bib overalls etc were replaced by golf shirts and jeans. The younger the work force the earlier the change in attire. Over my 42 years, if I wore a hat, it was a knit watch cap, never a "railroad " hat. When weather conditions warranted, I wore a CPO or short Denim jacket or a Carhart, but never was I caught wearing bib overalls or engineer cap. Yes, there were a few buffs who insisted in dressing the stereotype, but most railroaders dressed for the golf course, not a steam locomotive.
Shoes were traditional safety shoes, or boots, but that was mandatory and made good sense.
BTW: From photos published in the BLE Journal, the modern dress was common everywhere.
Wow, I really stirred up a hornets nest! To much use of exclamation points, angered those who can’t look through a catalog to find casually dressed figures to use as engine crew and mentioned photos in a current book showing engine crews in bibs and caps as late as the 1970s and made a complete and utter ass of myself! I guess there is no room for other opinions on these here Model Railroader Forums!