Has anyone ever had problems with their Locomotives getting very hot during an extended running period on your layout? I do know that if you run your Locomotives alot that the Motor can get quiet warm. Has the warm or hot motor ever caused the Locomotive shell to melt? Is’nt there a way to help keep the Motor cool during an extended use on the layout. I don’t understand why the Modeling companys don’t install small fans near the Motor to help keep the Engine cool. Thanks.
BNSFrailfan.
What brand and type of locomotive do you have? How much of a load were you pulling? How old is the locomotive? What scale are you talking about?
At our HO-scale club’s recent open house, we ran several locomotives, both steam and diesel, from 10:00 a.m. until after 6:00 p.m. pulling heavy loads uphill and had no problems at all with overheating. These locos were Bachmann Spectrum steamers and Kato diesels with can motors operating on DCC, pulling as many as 40 loaded coal hoppers.
A certain amount of heat is generated with all motors, but if you have a model that is getting very hot, it is drawing way too much current. Some of the older Athearn and other model engines would draw a high level of current under load and causing the motor to run hot. If you want to correct this, you would have to replace the motor with a new type.
Many moons ago I remember receiving a Model Power E unit that ran terrible right from the get-go. It was very slow and erratic and it got quite warm after running awhile. The motor (a huge can type) always sounded like it was loaded down. One day I opened it up to see if I could explain the trouble and found there was not one drop of oil in the gear boxes. There were small piles of plastic filings inside from the gears grinding away! I cleaned and lubed the gears and that loco instantly became the best runner in my fleet for many years!
I don’t know if your loco is new or not, but this could be something to check.
Some do, some don’t. I have a couple of Bachmann N F7s that get distinctly warm while running and slow down over the course of about an hour’s continuous run. I’ve had them in bits a few times, there’s no obvious problems and the motor spins freely, so I have no idea what’s causing this. I also have a Minitrix loco that must be a good 15 years old (has “Made in Western Germany” on the box) and has probably covered a good few miles (bought it used) that runs cool however long you leave it for - guess Minitrix motors are better than Bachmann!
Motors get hot because they are loaded down. If a locomotive is properly tuned it should never get hot, a little warm maybe, but never hot. A hot motor is doing a slow (or fast) death.
Take the shell off, clean up and lube the gears. You may need to shim the worm gear if there’s too much lash. Use a thin teflon washer if you can find one, if not, use a brass one. You should also take the time to lightly lube the trucks.
You can also scrub the motor armature down with a white pencil eraser to smooth it.
Mark in Utah
When my dad and I started building out first layout in about 20 years, I got some old AHM locos out of their boxes that I last used when I was a young tike back in the 80’s…
My son was running the DC throttle on this one particular C&NW diesel. He jacked the throttle up about 1/2 way to get it started rolling, and but the time that loco had run about 8 linear feet of track, it was smoking like crazy. We stopped the loco and took it off the track, looked it over and didn’t lube it or anything, put it back on and ran it. All of the sudden it started running real nice - must have just been “locked up” a bit from sitting so long. We lubed it up and it is now the fastest loco in our fleet, by a bunch. Never gets hot, barely warm… I burned out a lightbuld in it and popped the shell off of it after a fairly long run-time, some at very high speed. Motor was just slightly warm to the touch.
I will assume that anyone who signs in as “BNSF Fan” isn’t running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed:
To operate correctly, a steam locomotive’s drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat.
Start “doctorin’” your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism – remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface – a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels – all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL “Puller” to get the driver off.
With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don’t forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver).
Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle “float” in the box? If so, replace the gearbox.
Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler’s loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth or grooves. If there are, remove them carefully with a small file.
[quote]
Originally posted by nobullchitbids
I will assume that anyone who signs in as “BNSF Fan” isn’t running steam engines.
[quote]
No comment.
Any model train mechanisim should run free but not sloppy to minimize motor loading. Steam type engines must have all drivers quartered the same to eliminate siderod bind. The valvegear must be free with no tight spots.(If loco has that equipment.) The last thing is the proper lubrication. I suggest Labelle 106 grease on the worm & worm gear, (commonly called a spur gear.) 107medium oil on motor shafts, siderods & valvegear. All of these lubricants mentioned are plastic compatible. Use lubricants sparingly as they can cause problems that you don’t need. All mechanisims should be clean and free from dirt before you even start to chase down tight spots.
BNSF Railfan,
I’ve got an old Revell 0-6-0 steam engine with smoke generator, “chuffing sound”, and a yellow headlight. When I have run it, it ambles down the track just as pretty as you please. After a few minutes, it is HOT, just like a real steam engine. Nothing wrong with it, that’s just the way it is. Yes, it pulls a bunch of current, no, I do not intend to put a decoder in it, and yes, it has been fully disassembled and carefully aligned and lubed.
Just another take on whether an engine is supposed to be hot or not.
Mark C.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by nobullchitbids
I will assume that anyone who signs in as “BNSF Fan” isn’t running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed:
To operate correctly, a steam locomotive’s drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat.
Start “doctorin’” your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism – remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface – a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels – all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL “Puller” to get the driver off.
With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don’t forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver).
Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle “float” in the box? If so, replace the gearbox.
Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler’s loop): There should be no burrs or edges in any of the teeth o
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Roadtrp
[quote]
Originally posted by nobullchitbids
I will assume that anyone who signs in as “BNSF Fan” isn’t running steam engines. For those who are, here are some pointers so far missed:
To operate correctly, a steam locomotive’s drivers must be either quartered or trined, and the quarter must match exactly on all drivers. Even an error of a couple of thousandths is enough to cause an improperly quartered mechanism to bind, twice each stroke. Beyond that, anything which causes any lockup between the drive gear and the motor can make the motor work too hard and possibly overheat.
Start “doctorin’” your iron horse by manually checking the mechanism – remove the motor, worm and gearbox so that the mechanism will run freely. Place the mechanism on a glass surface – a large picture frame, baking dish, a tile floor, &c. Pu***he mechanism forward and watch the wheels – all should turn freely, even on the glass. If they lock up anywhere, the problem lies either in the quartering or in the stroke adjustment at the motion plate (valve-gear holder). That is assuming you do not have a bent rod, axle, or valve-gear part. If the problem lies in the motion plate, then the mechanism will pass the glass-plate test with the valve gear disconnected at the eccentric. If not, you will have to requarter the drivers (all of them, so that the quarter matches). NWSL makes a jig for this, and you also will need a NWSL “Puller” to get the driver off.
With drivers quartered and motion plate properly located, it is time to look at the drive gear: Is it squarely mounted in the center of the axle? If not, it needs to be reseated (don’t forget to maintain the quarter when reinstalling the driver).
Now, inspect the gearbox: Is there wear on the mounts which makes the axle “float” in the box? If so, replace the gearbox.
Now, check both worm and spur with a ten-power glass (jeweler’s loop):
To the roaring lion: A smoke generator is supposed to get hot (that’s how it makes smoke). But, is your MOTOR running hot?
To roadtripper: A new locomotive needs the same attention given its older cousin, and when one considers that new brass engines these days are running $1,000+ a pop, buying new engines is not a solution. Even the new plastic U.P. mountains are going for $325 – what you pay for a good, used brass one – so the question is: Do you want a model with running characteristics commensurate with the detail you have paid so much for?
Yes, what I have described appears to be a lot of work; however, remember: What an individual modeler confronts USUALLY is ONE of the problems listed, e.g. out-of-quarter drivers. A non-articulated brass locomotive comes apart with three screws (one under the cylinders and two either under or behind the cab) – NOT a lot of work to disassemble, provided you are careful not to screw up the headlight. There are two screws affixing the motor-worm-gearbox assembly to the spur (the two screws holding the gearbox cover) – NOT a lot of work to disassemble in order to check preliminarily quarter and motion-plate placement. Similarly, to check for a bent shaft, just run the motor at several speeds and see if anything is wobbling when it shouldn’t (this usually is very obvious). Two more screws (usually on the side) get you inside the gearbox, so how long does it take to inspect the gears with the jeweler’s loop? And as for lubrication, that has to be done occasionally anyway, new engine or not – you would gain nothing by replacing your menagerie.
I agree that the motor mount, in terms of angle, is a seperate issue – this can be a real pain to fix --; fortunately, because of modern machine tooling, it is a more uncommon problem (unless EVERY motor in that manufacturer’s particular run is off). But, in responding to Mr. Love’s initial inquiry, I am obliged to consider the possibility, since aside from his profession of appreciat
Here is a different fish! I have a consist with a dummy Stewart FT- B unit full of sound only. Two woofers and a tweeter powered from a Sountraxx ds150 first generation diesel decoder that is mounted right under the exhaust stacks. It runs quite warm, but so far I have not been able to run it long enough to get really hot. Just back and forth on an 8’ module. It is in an ABBA lashup and the other three are powered. It runs and sounds great and I am waiting for a Free-mo meet in June to try it out for a good run.
BNSF railfan, IMHO, a locomotive that is running hot is caused by over working it. This coud be caused by a number of things or combination of things, including: pulling too heavy trains, running in a multible lash up with engines with different gear ratios, lack of or over lubrication, wrong type of lubrication, engine not broken in, misalignment of moving parts(side rods, wheel quartering,etc on steam engines),trucks on diesels not rotating freely, wrong type of power to the tracks. The fun part of all this is to isolate and fix the problem. My suggestion is, if your not comfortable tearing it down, find someone that does repair work at your club or hobby shop. Ken
John Colley,
I also have a DSD-150, but not installed in anything, that seems to get overly hot even though it’s not hooked to a motor. I had it hooked to a 1W speaker without the cap in series while I was checking out a problem with a DSD-LL110LC, and for the short time it was on, it got so hot I couldn’t touch it. Do all the DSD-150’s run this hot?
Bob Hayes
BNSF railfan,
You never did tell us what engine you were running that got so hot; manufacturer, scale, does it have traction tires, etc.
Bob Hayes
I would like to thank all these contributors for their advice, i have an old used Penn that used to overheat every 30 minutes. the friendly people at my local shop said the same thing, it needs tuning
-Siddharth
I also have a Penn Line engine from 1953. It got hot about 1968, caused by the magnet loosing magnetism. Lately I have installed an A-Line Helix Humper replacement drive and all is now well.
Have had Athearn ceramic magnets crack / disintegrate also, one of the problems of being in the hobby for over 50 years