What is the normal lifespan of a diesel locomotive? SP kept many first generation Geeps forever and other roads rebuilt them into different styles, but is there a point where they just plain wear out? What about newer diesels like those using ac, are they more durable?
Two hot issues currently are fuel efficiency and pollution. Both may quickly doom older units, and alter dramatically how one answers this topic.
My understanding was the locomotives were good for a little over one million miles.
CP and CN have alot of GP-9s in use that were built in the 1950’s as old as 1954. They have had some work done to them but it’s the same hoods, frames, control stands, engine blocks, trucks, although the trucks gat swapped around a bit. I even see them on the mainline with 3 of them pulling a mile long train.
I see ex SOO line GP-9s in short line use, much less modified and as old as 1951.
Now the new Green Goats are going to be built around some of these CPR GP-9s. They will be using the frames and trucks. Green Goats will be new engines, but they will be the same old engines. When does an engine die? To me it is when it gets scrapped. If it gets rebuilt even to the point where you don’t recognise it, then it still lives on.
So these originaly GP-7s and 9s live on after 50 years! The Green Goats may even add a lifetime more, maybe. In Montreal some CN staight electric GE units were in comuter train service for 80 years from being built in 1914 up to the mid 90’s !
Some engines are around a while.
Sounds like a little (or alot) of maintenance can extend the life of a locomotive indefinitely as long as nothing major breaks and it is not involved in a wreck.
Some PRR D-16 American-Types 4-4-0 lasted until a few years after WWII in service (Del-Mar penninsula) and of course some museums have 80 and 90 year old steamers still pulling trains in light duty. One may question whether the Manx Electric with its 107-year old original interurban cars is an operating museum or a common carrier but it does run regularly all year round from Douglas to Laxy to Ramsey and is used about evenly between locals for transportation and tourists for both transportation and sight seeing. The 107-year old equipment is in good shape but with very little modernization, shock absorbers paralleling the coil springs on the truck frames was one big innovation. I know the question referred to diesel, but the electrical equipment is similar.
The real answer is “AS LONG AS THE RAILROAD WANTS TO KEEP PUTTING MAINTENACNE MONEY INTO THE UNIT” they will last literally forever if you keep maintaining and repairing them…just like cars, boats, etc. Bottom line, anything mechanical can last indefinetly as long as you keep them up, but it’s a matter of economic common sense and there comes a point in time where it no longer makes common sense. HOWEVER, I scratch my head when I see really old (1950’s, etc.) GP9s etc. still running and see the roads scrapping the newer power like SD40’s, F45, SD45, etc.
I’m not an expert on this, but I think that a diesel locomotive will meet the scraper torch when the frame is bent, or cracked beyond the point of being repaired. Also, contributing to the end is the availability to find major components and parts for the locomotive.
Like I said I’m not an expert but one of the reason for keeping a diesel locomotive on the rooster long after newer models are available is tax law. Capital rebuilding, or remanufacturing can give a railroad a “new” locomotive for less than the cost of a current new model and under the tax law this remanufactured locomotive can start to be depreciated just like a current new model.
Some manufacture’s locomotives in the past have been better candidates for “Capital” rebuild/remanufactureing than others. Also some models from the same manufacture can be better candidates too.
Jim
Jim
A critical point comes, when you have to replace the prime-mover. It is often more profitable to scrap the old unit then and buy a new one which is more powerful and should be cheaper to maintan
Or you can convert the unit to a slug unit or Green Goat when prime movers fail.
A cracked or rusted frame must spell doom. But locomtives must have a “life expectancy” built into them. I have no idea how long a unit is supposed last on average.
Those Amtrak F40PHs racked up some serious milage during there lifetime. I read somewhere that many of them had well over 5 million miles on them. And some of them continue to serve other railroads (Ski train,GCRY,CSX) although they don’t rack up the miles as fast as they did for Amtrak.
I wonder how many miles the SPs Geeps & Cadilacs racked up during there LONG careers. Many of them were used in mainline service right up till the end.
I used to work for a company, owned by Timken, that remanufactured used roller bearings. After the remanufacture the bearings themselves were guaranteed for a million miles.
I think something must also be said for the original quality of the locomotive. In spite of Alco’s problem with the 244 engine the RS and Century series locomotives were quality built. Class 1 railroads were happy to purchase used Alcos from other Class 1 railroads. CNW and N&W being two who purchased used Alcos from other railroads for freight service and D&H for passenger service. Of course the Century line used the 251 prime mover and not the 244 but you can find RS and Century locos still in service on short lines. That proves how much quality was built into the Alco frame and carbody. This is something that GE is just NOW learning after 50 some years.
A lot of how long they last deals with how much money the railroad has to replace them.
Engines usually go on the used market and many times a line which can only afford used engines can find the money to keep them going but not the money to replace them.
By the time some of these engines finally do make the scrap line they’ve been rebuilt so much that they are no longer “original equipment.”
Dale
Thanks for all the informative replies. It will be interesting to see how long the units being built now will last as compared to those from the 1950’s.
It’s stictly an economic issue based on cost to own and operate versus cost to buy new.
If there was never any new technology, it most likely would be cheaper to keep rebuilding the old.
On NS, there are 50 year old SD9s still roaming around on yard jobs because they maintenance savings and fuel savings available from new units isn’t nearly enought to justify their purchase.
There’s probably a few around where about the only original equipment on them is the nameplate. [:D]
Old GP-7’s and GP-9’s can go on forever because their relatively low horsepower diesels don’t strain the frame or their basic block construction the way higher horsepower diesels do . If the frame is kept painted and free from rust, it should last 100 years or so, why not? The basic engine block should be able to last half that long as long as the engine is maintained properly and liners and pistons and crankshaft and bearings and injectors and valves renewed as required. And the road switcher design is still useful, even with the high short hood on most -which often has been modified.
Adarondak Railroad has bought a bunch of FL-9’s which are in storage. If they restore them and put them in service, maybe one day there will be through Lake Placid - Penn Station (or Grand Central) with these locomotives using their third rail capability. Wonder if they will be painted into the New Haven McGinnis color scheme, which is authentic, or the NYC passenger lighting stripe scheme to match the railways 20th Centry inspired coach color scheme?
Newer power is often scrapped while older power is kept for a variety of reasons. The SD45 family went quickly because its V-20 engines were perceived to be fuel hogs. A small fleet of SD7/9’s may be kept to serve some light-rail branches that haven’t been abandoned yet. GP38’s are still around because their lower horsepower allowed them to be economically demoted to yard service as they got older.
Financial arrangements may also be a factor. Older power may be owned outright, and newer power may be on a 15-year lease and the buyout provisions of the lease may be too expensive to justify exercising them so the power is returned to the lessor.
At the museum we got a electric frieght loco built in 1901for the Oshawa st railway that still is used .
The two biggest factors is $$$$ to maintain them and price and avalibility of parts to keep em truckin!
The common as dirt GP-7/9 with there rock hard 567 will roll on and on. I doubt in 60 years your going to see a SD-70 in anywhere but a musuem.
The “Alternatin Current” (AC) units will probably last for about a century. Geeps will probably last until, well less than 2030 i’d imagine. The geeps are not as heavy-duty as most of the AC units and will probably last a shorter time. But who really knows though? Maybe the geeps will last. The AC might stay over a century as well. It all depends on the locomotive and the condition it’s in.
Richard