I admit I “borrowed” this poll from Classic Toy Trains magazine, but it also seems appropriate now for this forum (see Diesel bias in the photo contest thread).
I am also taking ideas for future polls. After 2 years, the well is starting to come up a bit dry! Just email me your suggestions.
Rene
Rene
I watch for sales in the garden rail ways magazine, or at train shows. local dealers to high with their prices. BEN
I think the low end provides a good starter for new entrants and a good basis for detailing for those on a tight budget. I started with a bachmann 2.4.2 ten years ago and it still provides friends kids with an engine they can run without any worries. I’ve also got two of the 2.6.0’s that are basically the same loco with a new chassis and finer detail. More like this would be excellent[^]
Hi Rene,
I voted mid range but all manufacturers should be doing entry level as well as a matter of course. It gets a bit dearer in the UK where it usually goes from dollar to pound on a one to one basis. My recent purchase of an Aristo C16 was £162-00 delivered, in my local shop at the weekend and the same loco was on the shelf for £280-00, in the states around $186 looking at another topic on this loco.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
I picked the mid range price because that is where I started and basically kept fairly true to that with all my loco purchases. All USA Trains locos except for the Challenger.
Grant
Hey there,
I too picked mid range. That is what suits my budget right now. May look at higher end when the kids are finished school though! That’s a few years away so for now I am quite content with running what I have. Later eh…Brian.
I voted $150-300 range as that is the range most can afford and where the greatest market potential lies. If it costs $500 to get any engine this will never be more than a rich persons hobby. Its good business sense to me to focus on providing more engines at a price range the most people can afford. Their are already quite a few diesels in this range but only a few locomotives. Its gotten a lot better, a Bachmann Spectrum Mogul can be got now for >$300. To me the current trend on providing bigger and more expensive engines while lessening focus the lower end level market will be bad in the long run for the hobby as it will continue to send the message that this is a BMW hobby, Bring Money Withyou.
I went for the mid-range. In the UK, we would not get a decent sized loco for under $300.
In the States, a different matter.
Ian P
Are we talking list price or street price? For the hobby to thrive, there has to be a lion’s share of desirable products in a price range that are well within reach of the average hobbyist. In most cases, that price point seems to be right around $300.00 on the street. MSRP can be whatever they want it to be, but the street price needs to be within reach.
In flipping through the GR ads, I think we’re kinda there right now. Most diesels can be had for well under that bar, and there are a fair number of steam locos under it as well, or just over it. That’s a pattern typical of any scale–steam locos cost about twice what diesel locos do. I don’t think we can expect to change that.
I do think we need to push for more affordible “popular” locos like a K-27 or something along those lines. Most modelers right now “make do” with what’s being offered to them in their price range. They can’t afford $2,000 for the C-16 they’d really like, so they spend $350 for a Bachmann 2-6-0 instead. They can’t afford $3,000 for a K-27, so they spend $400 for a Bachmann 2-8-0. They want models of these higher priced locos, but can’t afford them, so they have to settle for what they can. I think ultimately that will lead to a lot of frustrated modelers. Look at the reaction Bachmann got when they announced their Vulcan. Everyone was hoping for something along the lines of a C-19 or similar “popular” locomotive, and when they were handed an obscure prototype instead, the outrage was overwhelming. The chorus of “For GOD’S SAKE, build what we WANT to buy!” could be heard in every time zone.
The average modeler is tired of settling for table scraps while the elite dine on filet mignon. It takes no more R&D and tooling expense to produce a limited run die-cast model than it does to produce a plastic one. I think the manufacturers have already gotten a sense that we’re not terribly keen on them producing $3,000 limited editions of models that we want but can’t afford, but still seem disinclined t
Kevin,
My assumption was street price. Never look at list. To me list could be whatever…what will it cost ME? I feel you are very much right in that what we actually buy will help dictate what is made and how much. At least I hope so! Later eh…Brian.
[quote]
QUOTE: Originally posted by kstrong
Are we talking list price or street price? For the hobby to thrive, there has to be a lion’s share of desirable products in a price range that are well within reach of the average hobbyist. In most cases, that price point seems to be right around $300.00 on the street. MSRP can be whatever they want it to be, but the street price needs to be within reach.
In flipping through the GR ads, I think we’re kinda there right now. Most diesels can be had for well under that bar, and there are a fair number of steam locos under it as well, or just over it. That’s a pattern typical of any scale–steam locos cost about twice what diesel locos do. I don’t think we can expect to change that.
I do think we need to push for more affordible “popular” locos like a K-27 or something along those lines. Most modelers right now “make do” with what’s being offered to them in their price range. They can’t afford $2,000 for the C-16 they’d really like, so they spend $350 for a Bachmann 2-6-0 instead. They can’t afford $3,000 for a K-27, so they spend $400 for a Bachmann 2-8-0. They want models of these higher priced locos, but can’t afford them, so they have to settle for what they can. I think ultimately that will lead to a lot of frustrated modelers. Look at the reaction Bachmann got when they announced their Vulcan. Everyone was hoping for something along the lines of a C-19 or similar “popular” locomotive, and when they were handed an obscure prototype instead, the outrage was overwhelming. The chorus of “For GOD’S SAKE, build what we WANT to buy!” could be heard in every time zone.
The average modeler is tired of settling for table scraps while the elite dine on filet mignon. It takes no more R&D and tooling expense to produce a limited run die-cast model than it does to produce a plastic one. I think the manufacturers have already gotten a sense that we’re not terribly keen on them producing $3,000 limited editions of models that
I had 3 bachmann big hallers, nothing but problems with them,bachman had the one for 6 months , it came back , still would not run steady, I will buy their rolling stock , BUT no more of their engines, aristo craft and usa i will buy I WATCH for sales in the GRR MAGIZINE , for both engines and rolling stock. . Ben
Hi Ben,
I think (and hope) that there is a big difference between the Big Hauler line and the new Spectrum line. I see a vast improvement in the drive train of the new “Indy” Mogul (which, I think, is not a Spectrum product) and that found in the Big Hauler 4-6-0’s.
Hopefully TOC will read this thread and make a few comments.
Walt
WALT
how are you doing with your engine project??? the thing i sent you ,was the 6 month one. ben
Ben,
Still busy bashing the Indy. Hope to have something running in a week or so.
It’s a fairly involved process. First the cab from a Big Hauler is cut down to accomodate the Indy. Then the tender from the Big Hauler has to be cut down both length and width, I’m also replacing the plastic grabirons with steel wire. Then the batteries and Train Engineer radio are installed in the tender. All the wiring in the engine has to be redone and the sound system from the Indy gets swapped into the new tender. I’m also designing some elctronics to make battery charging automatic. And half the time I’m waiting around for paint or plastic putty to dry.
Walt
Hi,
I voted Mid-Range, though every supplier should also have entry and low-level priced locos in his product-portfolio to get started on a small budget, too.
best regards
klaus
Kevin,
To answer your question, yes, I meant street price, what you, the consumer, pays. Train manufacturer pricing can be a lot like movie/music prices. The list is usually much higher than what you actually pay–and that’s what matters.
Walt,
For all that trouble you probably could have scratchbuilt the cab easier.
Vic,
You’re probably right. But I’m using the steel cab and scratching the roof contours and detail would be a little difficult, hench the “saw and glue” routine.
Regarding the train crash. I’m a little confused. Did the driver slash himself in addition to driving onto the track or had he cut himself previously in an attempt at suicide?
Walt
I voted mid-range, as if I ever decided to buy another locomotive that would be my price point.
As it is now, I am storing locos as I don’t have room anymore.
Ben, the 4-6-0 is entry-level. Even the Aniversary, as indicated by it’s inclusion in sets this past Christmas season.
For serious modellers, I wouldn’t use one unless you did something major to it.
I have four 4-6-0’s on shed at the CCRy, 3 are now 2-8-0’s, one a 4-6-0, all BBT chassis.
None are left with original drive, including the Anniversary.
Kevin, yer right about the bigger stuff…like a K or an EBT Mike.
Somehow we need to not continue encouraging expensive brass stuff.
Especially when a lot of it needs re-work to even operate, like gauge (evey one of a particular loco I had through the shop had trailing truck about .100" too narrow), motors, u-joints.
I recall one where the handrails on to of the doghouse were butt-soldered, not drilled first then soldered.
Nice museum pieces, but not something you would want to run.
Driver axle journal springs too stiff to allow the chassis to “work”, lead trucks with parts mounted upside-down, lead truck wheels with not enough flange to stay on the track.
Tender pickups that are, well, junk. Tender frame piping that shorts out the trucks.
Voltage regulator boards for the numerous loco lights that overheat and go into thermal shutdown in 15-30 seconds.
Locos that are not made to go around our curves, even for testing, as they have to be “right”, yet they leave flanges off.
How much more do you want me to say?
TOC