LokSound Select - Prime Mover Start Up at Power Start Up

Model Railroader Electronics and DCC
1

Yesterday evening, I had it with sound. Too many locos sounding uo at power up.

So, I began my quest for silence by counting how many sound equipped locos are on my layout. Turns out, I have 28 sound equipped locos, but only 6 start up the sound of the prime mover immediately upon power up.

The 22 that remain silent are all QSI, BLI Paragon 2, and BLI Blueline.

Of the remaining 6, 5 are Tsunamis. The solution for the Tsunami is pretty simple - - - CV 113 =1.

But the remaining sound decoder, a LokSound Select is driving me nuts. I have read through the manual and tried different changes to CVs but to no avail. This LokSound Select decoder is in an Intermountain F3 for whatever difference that makes.

So, my question is, how do I program the LokSound Select decoder so that it remains silent at power up?

Thanks in advance.

Rich

2

Rich:

See FAQ for LokSound select decoders, “how do I reverse F8”:

http://www.esu.eu/en/support/faq/loksound/loksound-select/

3

Thanks for that link, maxman.

It is interesting because the instructions and accompanying text is almost identical to that found in another of what seems like a lot if LokSound Select manuals published by ESU.

What I found most interesting in the link that you provided was the part after “Please Note” which addressed the differences in the Loksound Select decoders that are modified for locomotive manufacturers use. That seemed critical to me since the loco in question was an Intermountain F3, and the LokSound Select decoder that I installed was provided to me by Intermountain. That note was not in the text in the manual that I referenced before starting this thread.

Anyhow, I tried that 3-step process from the link that you provided, but it didn’t work either. So, I am still trying to figure out to silence this decoder on power up.

Rich

4

Just to be sure we’re all on the ‘right track’, you know the Loksound instructions in the link are instructions to set the decoder so that the sound starts at power-up? Normally Loksound decoders don’t make sound until you press F8, reverse of most decoders.

BTW, have you tried using F8 to shut the sound off before you power down the layout, then tried powering back up? I might be wrong, but seems to me whichever way you have F8 when you power down is what it will do when you power back up.

5

stix, to tell you the truth, I am not sure what I am doing at this point.

After trying various combinations of CV values, as indicated in various manuals, I went back to Go. I reset the decoder, CV8=8. That done, I re-programmed the long address (POM), powered down, waited a minute, and powered up. The primer mover immediately sounded. Then I pressed F8 and the sounds all muted. Powered down, waited a minute, powered up, the prime mover immediately sounded.

Rich

6

Hi Rich,do you have a LokProgramer?

I ran into this problem this summer.

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/744/p/265135/2995628.aspx#2995628

Maybe it was the sound package I uploaded to the decoder or maybe it came that way but I had a NOT F8 and sound came on with power. Randy explains it best in that thread. I do not know how you remap F8 without the lokprogrammer, you need to make F8 F8 again, almost sounds political.

7

FWIW. I just put a Loksound Select into a DC Atlas GP7. The way it came, it’s silent on startup until I press F8. Whether or not sound was on when I shut off the system.

Ed

8

I do not have a LokSound Programmer.

I finally sent an email to Intermountain, and I am awaiting a reply.

When I ordered the LokSound Select decoder from Intermountain, a one-page operating bulletin was included, and it reads in pertinent part:

Sound On / Sound Off (F8 Function Key):

Sound Equipped Locomotive Only –

The F8 function key used with the LokSound Select allows for a more realistic operating experience and is not simply a “mute” button. This is done so that both the start-up and shut down sequences can be heard without any CV changes. This also reduces the power-up drain on your DCC system’s power booster. Sound decoders draw more current on the initial start-up than non-sound decoders. The F8 function key can be changed to become a “mute” button for the prime mover sound by setting CV32 to 2 and then CV403 to 32.

I tried that, and if I did the procedure correctly, it didn’t work.
Rich

9

I read that as your loco should be functioning the way you want it, out of the box from Intermountain.

That is: it is quiet on power on, not drawing excess electrons, then F8 initiates the start up sound.

A wise professor taught be the should does not equal is.

I looked at my manual and I don’t see how you undo NOT F8 and MF8GA (make F8 Great Again)

10

LOL I would very much like to MF8GA.

Yeah, it would seem that sound should not come on at power up unless and until I press F8. But that is not the case.

Rich

11

CV403 at 32 is enable the sound when the function key is off. You want the opposite, which is CV403 = 16. So set CV32=2, then CV403=16. The full details are actually in the v4.0 manual, since CV403 isn’t even mentioned in the Select manual except when they say to set it to 32 to disable the quiet on power on.

All of the ones I have so far came out of the box quiet until I hit F8. The way it ought to be.

–Randy

12

CV 403 is mentioned in the FAQ link I posted above.

13

I agree, the only problem being that if the loco see a momentary short it assumes that the power is “coming on” and restarts the starting sequence.

It would be nice if the decoder could be programmed to remember what the sound/silent setting is so if the sound was on when the power is removed it comes back when power is restored, and if off when power is turned off it remains that way when power is restored.

14

Tried that Randy, but it didn’t work.

Here is what I did:

Power up, sound comes on immediately.

Press F8, sound mutes.

Power down.

Power up, sound comes on immediately.

POM, CV32=2, CV403=16, sound still on.

Press F8, sound mutes.

Power down.

Power up, sound comes on immediately.

One thing that I notice. When I power up and sound comes on immediately, I need to press F8 twice to mute the sound. Thereafter, F8 toggles sound on and off as long as I do not power down, but if I power down, then power up, I have to press F8 twice to mute the sound.

Rich

15

When you press F8 to mute the sound, does it just turn the sound off, or does it do a “shut down”?

16

How did you power down?

When I was messing with Rule 17, lifting one side of the engine wheels should have had the same result as powering my command station on and off. It did not.

Yes… that makes no sense, at least to me, but it was repeatable.

17

I literally shut down power to the layout.

Rich

18

Just heard back from Intermountain. They are very good about replying to emails.

Here is the reply:

If you’re wanting the CVs for the F unit decoder that we discussed in 2015, the setting is:

CV32 = 2 FIRST
CV387 = 16

This setting will then require the activation of function 8 to start up the prime mover. It will also shut-down the prime mover if the locomotive is in idle. If the locomotive is moving or if the prime mover isn’t in idle, function 8 acts as a mute key.

CV387?

Yep, that worked. I had been trying to mute the sound on power up with CV403.

Go figure.

I appreciate all of your replies.

Rich

19

Secret CV’s …who knew?

20

At least Intermountain is responsive. That has to be a setting in their OEM project. I just used Lokprogrammer to change F8, and the only CV it changes is 403! 16 for silent start, press F8 to turn it on, and 32 for start up with the sound on, F8 will mute. As documented in the Select manual.

It actually does make sense once you dig into how the sound sequences work in a V4.0. CV387 is line 9 in the code, CV403 is line 10 in the code. Obviously they have the prime mover on/off in line 9, not line 10 in their project. Others may have the prime mover logic in line 10, in which case the manual’s use of CV403 would be correct. Same values - 16 = with F8 on, 32 = with F8 off.

In fact I think I just had an insight into how this works, trying to decipher this in the manual. Kind of neat, really. There are 9 logic conditions, 2 physical outputs, 2 logic outputs, and 3 sound outputs per row in this table. So you cna have up to 9 conditions for something to happen. The 2 physical outputs allow you to select any combination of up to 16 function wires (really only 12 max supported, the other 4 are alternative configs for the headlights and F1/F2 for ditch lights), anything from no wires doing anything up to all 12 (so a single Fkey can turn on 1 light, or 4 lights, whatever you want). The 2 Logic Output CVs give control of 16 options like notch up, notch down, doppler on, light dim, dynamic brake on/off, etc. And the 3 sound slot CVs let you pick any combination of 24 sound slots to play sounds based on the conditions.

There are 40 rows in this table. 16 CVs per row. 480 CVs! This is all just CV setting - you can effectively write 40 lines of code to make the decoder do things based on keys, direction, speed, acceleration, deceleration, whatever. All without editing the sounds or even needing a Lokprogrammer.

Too much I think is simplified in the Select manual and it doesn;t explain this at all. Plus the CVs don’t wlways match - what CVs are what lines in the table