I was watching some old videos that I made back in the glory years (for me) of the late 80’s and early 90’s and came across bunch of NS trains running long hood forward (Valpraiso, Tolono, Chicago). Actually, a lot of them. I was talking to a crew out of Fond Du Lac (the train they came off of had an NS unit leading) and asked him why they don’t run them long hood forward. He said something about the FRA banned that practice but if they had to do it, it would be run under restricted speed.
Is there any truth to this and does this practice still go on in mainline service?
He also went on about when the CN at FDL was WC, the roadmaster would always send the NS connection train to Chicago (usually with NS power) with the NS power on the head-end with the NS leading, Long Hood forward. He said, that the roadmaster said, that these units are made to be run that way, and that’s the way I’m going to run 'em. (something like that, and the roadmaster was a railfan)
First generation diesel did work long hood forward. Was comfortable fit for the engineer on the right side. Second generation was often available either way, often with dual controls cabs. N&W and Southern did a lot more long hood forward operating than most other roads. Finally with the 3rd generation (computers, dash this and that, etc.) short hood forward became the standard operating procedure.
The practice of running long hood forward is ok and we run them at track speed. the fra did not ban this and the ns only does this because its easier to see around curves for obstructions and banners. and less fumes in the cab. anyways i run long hood out every chance i can.
Diesel electric locomotives run just as well long hood forward and short hood forward.
NS and the Southern both ordered their early units with the control stand facing the long hood for years and years, simply because it was believed that having the long hood forward provided more protection for the crew in the event of a accident.
NS also order quite a few SDs with dual control stands, some of which are still around.
Which way the locomotive faces is immaterial to the operation of the unit, it runs just as well either way, but quite a few local union agreements specify that the leading unit has to run short hood forward…in the absence of a local agreement, it is pretty much up to the crew, yardmaster and train master if the train runs long or short hood leading…most of the time, the crews prefer the short hood forward because of the visibility issue.
Most trainmasters will not force a crew to run long hood forward.
Dash 9s, with the radiators sticking out, can limit the visibility…but if a crew is familiar with their territory, they will run it that way if there is no other option.
There is no FRA mandate or rule in regards to which way the locomotive faces, again, that is left up to the local agreement and local practices.
As Wabash pointed out, some crews like running long hood leading.
One hindrance to long hood forward is that many engines aren’t equipped with ditch lights on the long hood. It dosen’t prevent running long hood forward, but without ditch lights you can only go 20 mph over public crossings.
The same thing if the track being used requires cab signals. Most are equipped for the normal forward operation only. The cab signal doesn’t work in reverse.
In an unusual situation, anything goes. I’ve run a SD70ACE long hood forward without ditchlights or cab signals where cab signals were required for about 20 miles. Our lead engine went bad and all the other units were facing the other way. (The dispatcher asked if I’ld take the train to where we would meet some power coming out to rescue us. I said I would if I could get the initials of the person authorizing this.) It was a foggy night and I had to rely on my conductor for the block signal indications, by the time they could be seen in the fog, the long hood obstructed my view. One time I did see the green reflected off of a covered hopper on an adjacent train that we met. The engineer of that train radioed to me, “Now you know how the NS does it.”
Jeff
PS, Wabash, my hat’s off to you. You can have your long hood forward, I think I’ll stick with the short hood.[:)]
I want to know, Jeff, were you running a desktop control engine when you did that. Now, that’s a miserable experience. Wabash1, if I can sit on the right side and look out that long hood, ok, but on a NS widebody, I don’t want to look around that radiator or half lie down to see out that hood under the radiator. I am not going to do it without raising cane first. Ed, one point of contention, NS never bought any dual control units and the N&W quit buying them before they merged with the Southern. There aren’t very many left. Most NS units have ditchlights on both ends. Those that don’t are former Conrail units, although I’ve seen some that have had them added.
No, thankfully it was equipped with the standard type controls. All the engines on this train, a stack train, were new SD70 ACEs on their first run. The lead engine was showing 407 miles on the odometer in the computer when an axle on the lead truck locked up.
Two of our locomotives (Former NYC RS3 and former Pennsy GP9) were built to run long hood forward. We’ve spent so much time in them that running in our short-hood-forward C424 seems a bit odd at times - particularly because all three have the long hoods running in the same direction.
Yes the advantage of short hood out is less fumes, the advantage for long hood out is less noise. little more protection, and signals can be seen running long hood out. if older unit its easy newer unit just hope its a emd. those ge units are a pain, and i hate desk tops, engines are not desk they are work horses and need aar controll stands. For you buffs who cant understand why most engineers hate desk tops just sit at a table with your arms held up at breast high for 12 hrs. and make sure your next to a wall so your feet and leggs are not able to streach out. and you only get a 5 min break for toilet.if your 6 foot + tall its worse and if your 5 ft 5 in and smaller your feeling like your in a high chair. they are not 1 size fits all.
Great Northern roadswitchers were set up to run long hood forward through and including the GP 20s. The GP 30s and U 25 Bs were factory standard chopped nose short hood forward. While I never worked as an engineer or in train service, I would far rather hit something at a grade crossing with that long hood to protect me than with just a big window out front.
Any eng without ditch lights on the long end cannot leave a initial terminal in that mode but say if a lead eng was setout enroute and the 2nd eng was long hood w/ no ditches, it could still operate but having to observe the 20 mph crossing rule.
That sums it up nicely but I don’t agree so much about less noise. I was an N&W man for a good number of years before the merger with the Southern and rode a whole lot of units with the long hood in the lead. Another problem with running long hood forward on the newer power would be the simple fact that you would be running from the left side, making a miserable experience even more miserable.
The only diesels that the Santa Fe ever ran long hood forward were yard switchers, and I think that was only because they didn’t have a short hood in the first place.