Ok so I recentely received Kalmbach’s “A Model Railroader’s Guide To Coal Railroading” and in it was a photo of a set of Fairbanks Morse Trainmasters with the leading unit long hood forward was this because of lack of turning facilities, coincidence, or engineer preference? And if you were a transition era engineer which would you prefer the long hood ahead like a steam loco or the short hood forward? (Thats is if the unit has a tall hood the entire length railroads probably required short front hood units to have it forward <I’m guessing so correct me if I’m wrong!>)
I would prefer whichever way the control stand faces, that is whichever end is designated as the front (more ergonomic, less twisting around to see). If it has dual controls I would prefer short hood leading, to keep the diesel exhaust out of the cab (FM units were quite fumey).
When Geeps came on the market in the late 40’s and early 50’s there were, obviously, two schools of thought.
Long hood forward emulated steam engine operation and had the majority of the locomotive’s heavy machienry between hitting something and the crew. Short hood forward, in some circles, was viewed as offering the crew less protection than operating long hood forward. A minority of carriers installed dual control stands so that the engineer could operate from a ‘normal’ position no matter which hood was leading.
Once the low nose, wrap-around visibility, cab was developed for the short hood, virtually all carriers flocked to this form of cab. Southern and Norfolk Western were notable holdouts to low nose short hoods.
And nowadays a unit must be short hood leading, right?
The long hood was the defailt front for ALCOS. The short hood default front for EMD. The standard placement of the conlrol stand reflected this. The actual configuration was at the option of the purchaser, so there were ALCOs built and normally operated with the short hood front and EMD with the long hood front.
The Southern Pacific purchaced Alco RS11 demonstrators which were set up long hood front. The rest of their RS11 were set up short hood front.
As stated in an earlier post the railoads could also had the option to purchase dual control locomotives. On which end the “F” designating the front was painted was at the option of the railroad,
ALL:
The CBQ and NP ordered their Geeps short nose forward. The GN ordered their SD 7 and 9’s and GP20’s long nose forward. The second generation GN’s road units were all short and chopped nose forward. One X-NP engineer was working a switch job on the X-GN side and was cussing the long nose because he was not used to it. The NP paid ALCO $550. per unit for have them setup short nose forward, probably to the engine crew would not have to breathe in exhaust.
Ed Burns
Retired NP-BN-BNSF from Minneapolis.
If the long hood end is equipped with ditch lights - the unit can be operated in the lead, without restriction. If there are no ditch lights on the leading end of a locomotive, it is then restricted to 20 MPH over road crossings by Federal Regulations. There are, at present, no regulations upon which side the control stand must be located.
So would it be possible albeit rare to see a unit running long hood first on a class I today, correct?
On CSX all 4 axle engines and some 6 axle engines are equipped with ditch lights on both ends. They area mostly used in Local Service and operate in both directions over their territories.
I don’t know how other carriers have equipped or use their locomotives.
Ditto for the BNSF. I have never seen a six axle road unit with ditch lights on both ends. Most four axle locomotives (Geep’s) have ditch lights on both ends due to their use on locals AND the Special Instructions for individual subdivisions specify that four axle locomotives are permitted on certain industry or other tracks due to weight restrictions.
Ed Burns
A few Wisconsin Central SD45s were set up with ditch lights on both ends for use in aggregate train service. One of the few times I’ve seen an SD45 running long hood…
Once in a blue moon, Norfolk Southern still dispatches a train “Southern style”…oft times these are reported on sites like Railpictures.net…this particular picture is captioned as an SD70M leading…
This one was reported as NS 252…
This one was reported as NS 833…
This one was reported as a BNSF Peavine train from Phoenix where the scheduled leader was bad-ordered and the NS unit that otherwise would have been second in line was “lead-capable” with the long hood and so was dispatched long hood forward…
Here is an SD40-2 on NS 305 as recently as March 18, 2016…you can tell by the dust it is kicking up that it is still bringing its A game after all these years and is really moving along…
I would surmise that Norfolk Southern still needing locomotives for mine runs, even though coal is down, would have a need to have more units set up to run long hood forward.
Why would they be dispached “southern style” is it pure coincidence or is there a specific reason.
It’s usually just bad luck. If we get engines out of the shop longhood out, it’s hell and a half getting permission to turn them. Also, if your LEADER equipped motor is leading but backwards, that is the one we have to use. And occasionally power will get set out en route, and it just so happens #2 is long hood. That being said, for road trains, it is an infrequent occurrence. Our engines don’t have outward facing cameras for the back windows either. Road switchers and locals don’t have a front as much, they go the way it’s pointed.
I’m guessing it’s coincidence, unless the units were specifically set up to run that way.
The Southern preferred to run long hood forward for crew safety reasons in the old days, as a matter of fact from what I’ve read the crews preferred it that way. A lot of veteran engineers who started with steam liked having all that machinery in front “just-in-case.” Nowadays I don’t think it makes a difference to modern crews.
So nowadays it’s just luck of the draw.
I’d say so. Several years back I saw an NS GP-50 (high short hood!) running long hood forward, and frequently see CSX GP-38’s and GP-40’s running local freights long hood forward as many times as I see them running short hood forward.
About 5 or 6 years back I had to operate a train long hood forward after an engine failure. The lead engine, a brand new (only 400 miles on it) SD70ACe suffered a locked traction motor. After setting it out, the rest of the consist (also all new) were all facing the other way. These engines weren’t equipped for long hood road service, no ditch lights or operable cab signals/ATC for “backwards” movement.
I was instructed to keep going to a point where we were going to get a new lead engine from another train. It was at night with rain/drizzle/foggy conditions. Since we didn’t have ditch lights, we had to get down to 20mph over public grade crossings. I was sitting on the inside of double track, the wayside block signals on the outside (field side) for our direction of movement. It’s a good thing I had a conductor because I never saw the signals in those foggy conditions. We met a couple of trains and I was able to see the block signal reflection on some covered hoppers at one point.
I’ve noticed from moving power around in the yard, even in broad daylight that the radiator “wings” or overhang really obstruct your view on the modern engines. When sitting in the engineer’s seat looking out the back window you’re looking right at the “wings”. I’m glad we don’t regularly run our modern engines long hood forward.
Jeff
I always wondered, since the companies are already installing lots of cameras and screens in the cab, would it be that big of a deal to put a back-up camera on these engines? Oh yeah… that would actually benefit a crew. Heh. Nevermind.
Something else to fail and be a reason for a Engineer to SHOP an engine. FRA Regs being that if a locomotive is equipped with a feature, it must work when a crew takes charge of the engine.