I am intrigued by the LIRR map at http://web.mta.info/lirr/Timetable/lirrmap.htm
For the Port Jefferson Branch, it shows a purple line as an offshoot at Hicksville leading to Bethpage and then connecting just west of Babylon on the Babylon/Montauk Branch. What traffic moves on this connector line?
Almost all traffic east of Babylon is via the Main Line and Hicksville. It is very rare to see a diesel consist on the South Shore (Babylon) line.
ROAR
That connector from Bethpage to Babylon is used mainly by Montauk branch trains to Patchauge, Speonk, and Montauk and there is no third rail. Electric service ends at Huntington, Ronkonkoma, on the north side and at Babylon (and all branches) on the south side of the island. Oyster Bay branch is diesel service. At the west end, Atlantic Ave (Brooklyn), New York Penn Sta. and Port Washington are all electric as is Hunterspoint Ave and Long Island City but mostly diesel service operates from those two stations to diesel only lines east of Jamaica. There are some diesel only trains that operate east from Jamaica only also from Huntington and Hicksville to Port Jefferson. There are select peak hours trains which utilize dual service locomotives avoiding passengers having to change at Jamaica. The LIRR is a most fascinating railroad to study and ride…join Ridewithmehenry on one of our upcoming outings… but remember on the LIRR there are trips which can be done only on weekends, some only on weekdays, some only in summer, some only in winter…and they change their timetable four times a year!
Not being familiar at all with LIRR operations, what is the Main Line?
Is there a better LIRR map which might show where there is electric, diesel or both service as well as transfer points from one to the other service takes place?
Th LIRR indicates the Main LIne from Penn Station and Long Island City via Hunterspoint Ave to Greenport as The Main Line. The Montauk Branch is from Long Island City to Montauk via Penny Bridge and Fresh Pond to Jamaica then via St. Albans to Babylon and Montauk. The Port Washington Branch is from Harold interlocking to Port Washington; Port Jefferson Branch from Divide Tower (Hicksville) to Port Jefferson; the Oyster Bay Branch from Nassau (Mineola) to Oyster Bay, the Atlantic Branch from Barclay Center (Brooklyn) to Jamaica to Valley Stream via Locust Manor and Rosedale; The Long Beach Branch from Valley Stream to Lynbrook to Long Beach; Far Rockaway Branch from Valley Stream to Far Rockaway; West Hempstead Branch from Valley Stream to West Hempstead; Hempstead Branch from Floral Park to Hemstead; Central Branch from Bethpage to Babylon. There are other short connecting and interchange tracks. Confusion might arise with the trains to Patchouge, Speonk and Montauk not running the Montauk Branch from Jamaica to Babylon but running the Main Line to Bethpage and the Central Branch from there to Babylon.
Employee timetables and schedules would show you the information you are looking for. But knowing that everything from Brooklyn and Penn Station east through Jamaica to Huntington, Ronkonkoma, and Babylon are electrified except the Central Branch are electrified and everything east of those endpoints as w
What is the main line, and what is the Main Line? What are the terminals of both?
Here is Map:
The problem arises is the fact that LIRR is a conglomeration of older steam lines, many of which would have had a main line. The Central Line was pulled up in the '40s.
The Main Line as we understand it to day runs from Penn Station to Hicksville. Perhaps including the line all the way out to Ronkonkoma. REMEMBER that the LIRR was chartered as a service from New York to Boston, and so the Main Line went to Greenport for a ferry.
The Montauk Line historically ran from Long Island City via Fresh Pond etc. (Gray lin, no stops shown) to Jamaica via St Albans to Babylon and Montauk. There are no LIRR trains on the “Lower Montauk” between Long Island City and Jamaica, and indeed, I do believe that that line has been transferred to NY&A Railroad: It is no longer LIRR property.
Electric lines run from Penn Station to Port Washington and to Jamaica, and from Atlantic Terminal to Jamaica.
From Jamaica they run to Far Rockaway or Long Beach via Locust Manor; to West Hempstead and to Babylon via St. Albans.
On the Main Line they run from Jamaica to East Williston and to Hicksville. In the past 30 years or so they were extended from Hicksville to Huntington and to Ronkonkoma.
Diesel only service runs from Jamaica to Oyster Bay, Port Jefferson, Greenport, and Montauk (via Hicksville) with commuter service as far east as Patchogue and or Speonk. A number of diesel trains use dual mode units and operate from NYP.
Hope this helps.
ROAR
See my answer above…based on the LIRR employees timetable and schedules and not base on public timetables. There are some excellent books about the LIRR including Steel Rails to the Sun Rise for starters. The LIRR Historical Society has two museums, one at RIverdale and one at Greenport, with activities all over the Island. Check your local library and look for the Sunrise Train Chapter of the NRHS, too. They all can help better than I can.
In April of 1989, my wife and I went to Montauk and back on a Saturday. Going out we went via the Central Branch, and we returned through Babylon. Is this routing still followed?
I can’t comment on today’s routing. However, I would like to know how much time you had in Montauk before boarding the train for the return trip?
You went through Babylon in both directions. Both the electric line mostly for local service near the south shore and the connector from Hicksville serve Babylon, joining just west of the station. Sometimes Montauk trains are routed through the southern line if there is congestion on the connecting non-electrified line between Hicksville and Babylon, and if the train is not scheduled to make stops between Jamaica and Babylon. And some trains, like the Friday evening “Cannonball” don’t even stop at Babylon! Once in my life I did ride a Montauk train that ran via the southern route.
Dave, I am confident that we used the Central Branch when we went out. We did not stop in Babylon in either direction, and I was surprised to see the Babylon station as we were going back in, as we did not pass through such a station going out.
As to time in Montauk, we had time to find a restaurant (we were there in April, so not many were open), eat lunch, and take a taxi to the point and to the station. If I were at home, I could see just how long we had.
The length of time in Montauk varies depending on weekday or weekend day and virtually by month. There is more service during the summer months, of course. The Montauk station is over a mile from the village and if you need food, you have to taxi into town and back…$6+ tip per person I believe they told me. There are some one hour turn around times but also some 3 hour turn around times.
LIRR schedules are based on service. Thus you have to get to Jamaica from Penn Sta or Brooklyn if you don’t board the trains at Hunterspoint Ave or LIC. You could take a train to Babylon, change to the Montauk train (most stop) or the Patchougue or even Speonk train and change at their termini to the Montauk train. Most Montauk line trains take the Main Line to Bethpage, the Central Line to Babylon and the Montauk Branch to P, S or M…Some ot the Montauk trains run Jamaica to Patchogue or vice versa without stops. The Friday eastbound Cannonball and Sunday westbound Cannonball, do not make any stops west of Westhampton and terminate in Penn Sta. so there isn’t even a stop at Jamaica. Look up the LIRR timetables at LIRR.com or MTA.com. and you can see how this all works. But most important, again, note that the LIRR changes schedules, especially to Montauk and Greenport, each quarter. Thus new schedules will be out for after Labor Day weekend with changes noted for October 1st. Then there will be a Winter schedule, a Spring schedule with changes set for Memorial Day, a Summer following Memorial Day…
This is Babylon station
If you follow the line west from there you’ll see the junction. Far as anyone knows, no way to to get to Montauk without going thru Babylon since they pulled up the Manorville branch 70? years ago.
It was the St. Albans station, not the Babylon station that appeared without warning on our way back in. Of course, we went through Babylon both ways.
Our trip was on a Saturday.
You were on the wrong track. For some reason or another. When traffic gets backed up on the Main via Bethpage, HIcksville and Mineola, they will send the Montauk trains over the Montauk Division’s Babylon Branch instead of the Central Branch and Main LIne. One of the many neat things about the LIRR. You could even have gone via the Atlantic Branch from Valley Stream to Jamaica…it is possible, but I don’t think ever done.
Thanks, Henry. I had, somehow, been given the impression that we would use the Central Branch both ways, so I was astounded when the St. Albans station appeared. As it is, I have a loop on Long Island.
We got back to New York in time to take a taxi up to where the Metropolitan Opera holds forth, and saw, to my wife’s delight (even though we able to sit only during the intermission), Madama Butterfly.
In spite of occasional criticism and complaints from me, I really do think the LIRR, MNRR, NJT, MTA, SEPTA, and Amtrak try hard to provide service and not just train rides. NJT is having problems at the moment in the wake of the Sandy debacle while the others seemed to ride out the storm in good shape in the long run. LIRR often provides extra trains or buses when there is a perceived problem; Montauk division is best example when last summer they began carding extra trains to handle the Sunday evening rush then making those extras regular scheduled movements this year. NJT has recently been able to provide “substitute” equipment in several cases, especially on the MNRR service routes but has spilled over to west of Dover,too.
and I did not say you stopped at the Babylon station both ways, simply that you went through it!
Yes, some of the Montauk trains will skiip Babylon and make connections at Patchouge; actually express Patchouge to Jamaica. For track miles sake ridewithmehenry has ridden a Babylon local out of Penn Sta. and changed at Babylon. LIke coming back express from Patchouge, though. Wish there was a reasonable turn back on the Fri afternoon Cannoball express from Penn to West. Hampton or Sun afternoon return from Westhampton. But in both instances the wait time is 3 or more hours making for too long a day for our day trips.