Long live the rock in my basement.

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

Ok By now weve established im a rock fan and i am building the rock from burr oak yard to bureau jct in ho scale in my basement and its coming along nicely. What i need from this wonderful comunity of railfans is anyone out there that has track diagrams of this teritory and or pictures of the row or even an old hogger that ran the line that has some stories. Unforunately the rock was shut down a year after i was born sooooooo dont have much to go on other than books i have read, us govt maps, and railfan trips up and down this section of rr.The line is now a shell of its fromer RI glory that i am attemting to recreate and would like anything i can go on. Have been to RITS and most the rail pic sites online. help anyone[:D] LONG LIVE THE ROCK!!!

2

Back when I was a punk kid growing up in the Chicago area, I was lucky enough to ride and experience the Rock from downtown to Joliet. What a railroad! One day in 1974, during summer vacation, I sat all day near the Blue Island,Vermont street, depot and watched the action all day. Alcos switching the yards, tripple headed E-8’s hauling freights, E-6 # 630 on commuter trains, the 750 or 751 AB-6 on commuter runs…F-3’s and ex Union Pacific (can I use their name?) E-9’s still wearing yellow on commuter trains. Then there was the rockets…sometimes 2 cars, sometimes 12 with a Vista dome (big ben). It was a great railroad and I miss it deeply. Long live the rock, indeed.

3

Hint:

(1) 2nd floor, large library at Iowa City that is a state university
(2) collection in the stacks of another large state university library at Norman (can’t mention name for fear of Mookie going ballistic at just the mention of the name.)
(3) in the basement of 1416 Dodge Street in Omaha (if it hasn’t moved yet)
(4) National Archives II - Rockville, MD

All require $$$ and three require serious research time. (1) and (2) got their records from CRIP’s offices at LaSalle Street/ Chicago after the trustee pulled the plug following the rummage sale/fire sale/parting out of the Rock…The third one is more inclined to listen to engineers (civil tribe) and surveyors and charges $40.00 a map sheet. Model railroaders are viewed as pests (for good reason) at two of the three locations listed above because of theft, incessant dumb questions, grandstanding and wasted time/ resources created by some that tarnishes all’s good standing. (damned subfans!)

ps - knov the difference between a track chart and a val map for openers (most in the sister forum to this one don’t understand)

4

AS far as what the area looks like you might want to go to www.terraserver.microsoft.com You can go to older areial photos and one of them might have something, but I’m not sure how far back the data base goes.

Hope I helped,
Noah

5

((3) in the basement of 1416 Dodge Street in Omaha (if it hasn’t moved yet)
…The third one is more inclined to listen to engineers (civil tribe) and surveyors and charges $40.00 a map sheet.
ps - knov the difference between a track chart and a val map for openers

I am looking for info on the Mopac line in northern kansas. would the same address have that info? How do I go about getting to it from the UP when I visit? Do I just ask? Do I need to take a civil engineer with me? How large are the map sheets? What is the difference between a track chart and a val map?

6

Can you tell us which MoPac Line in Northern Kansas ? (between where and where?) so that we can determine:
(1) is it still currently in Union Pacific ownership?
(2) is it abandoned?
(3) was it turned over to Kyle/Statesrail/RailAmerica like so many other lines in NE Kansas? (case in point: Beloit, KS)

A track chart is a line schematic on letter size paper used by railroads for planning purposes showing alignment, profile, maintenance history, timetable speeds, etc. and is a “snapshot” of the current condition of the railroad. Usually about 5 miles of railroad fit on a sheet. These track charts are considered proprietary info and do not get released to the public generally. Some railroads will issue modified versions of the track chart to train crews in small booklets (simplified with maintenance data removed)to supplement the condensed profiles found in the timetables. A sample would look like this:
(http://www.drgw.net/drgw-info/paper/gradecharts/denver-dotsero-[1992]/data-images/denver-dotsero-[1992]-[MP0-5]-2640x2040.gif )

An ICC Val Map, a function of the ICC Act of 1913, is generally a 28" x 57" sheet of layered cadastre (before GIS, there was the manual cadastre) at various scales that could have covered anywhere between one and seven miles of railroad and had multiple overlapping series of maps with the most detail showing up in large terminals and cities. Out in the boonies, one map would suffice. 28" x 57" was the mandated size required by ICC, once the in-house maps come into play , that can be anything from a roll map (36" x 100 feet long) to 24" x24" that CB&Q used in many places.

If the railroad existed just before World War I, chances are that there is a val map for that piece of railroad. After 1983, only the Class 1’s had to keep the maps current though (and CR and SP did nothing & never got caught)…

Mudchicken mind candy!

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

7

[quote]
Originally posted by mudchicken

Can you tell us which MoPac Line in Northern Kansas ? (between where and where?) so that we can determine:
(1) is it still currently in Union Pacific ownership?
(2) is it abandoned?
(3) was it turned over to Kyle/Statesrail/RailAmerica like so many other lines in NE Kansas? (case in point: Beloit, KS)

The Mopac line was the Concordia subdivision and I am looking for info for the line from Frankfort to Concordia. It had been turned over to KYLE. Part of it (frankfort to Ames) is abandoned, the rest is storage track.

Nate

8

Was not too far off at Beloit…Welcome to the mess that is RailAmerica. (What happens when Wall Street & Operating folks get left in charge at the expense of everything else [V][V][V] They are big, but at what cost?)

Official answer is supposed to be http://www.imgonline.net 904-264-1560

9

MC–

Nada, senor! That link goeth to a buy-a-link page. Any other options for these nice folks???

Ny the way, our modeler friends should also not forget the Sanborn maps, usually deposited at local state university. Not much for rural, but the kind of info they may need for in town.

10

RI4310: what time are you modeling? The era you model could make quite a bit of difference in what you need as far as info goes.

11

Should have been www.imgonline. net My fault.

As explained above, nothing from a railroad source is free anymore and modellers are regarded as pests for some of the stunts they pull. (There are plenty of railroaders that are fans or modellers, but you won’t see them make mention of them at work!)

In RailAmerica’s case, they have fallen into the trap set by the moneygrubbing Wall Street trash (their website reeks of it - more into showing what interests Wall Street instead of shippers, the public or anyone else that would have cause to do business with RA.). They have some interest in running trains and not much else.[}:)][V][V]

Gave RI4310 some options to think about off-line. “Mudchickens” probably deal in the history and details that would bore a modeller anyhow. (We call it data salvaging.) Have liitle faith in Sanborn Maps, Terraserver or for that matter, SPV’s attempts for anything other than very basic relationships. The errors, guesswork and macro-goof generalities are just too predictable. (reliability? detail? correctness?- nope!)

[banghead][banghead][banghead]

12

Im modeling the rock from about 1965-1980 which is a broad time frame but i just love the rocks older black and red paint job as well as its newer stuff. Kinda freelanced but building the layout as to get the feel of the rock.

13

One idea you may wi***o model is the splitting of the Rocky Mountain Rocket at Limon, Kansas. The long train came from Chicago with an E-7A and E-7Bmodified. Nothing special about the A unit except the marvelous Rock paint scheme, but the B unit was modified so it had a square cab uf front, like a box-cab electric locomotive, and it took the Colorado Springs section while the E-7A took the Denver Section. I believe the Rock had just two such E-7B modified units and later they were seen in Chicago - Joliet commuter service.

14

Limon, Colorado

(The former Rock Island between Colorado Springs & Limon is now gone, east of Limon is now Kyle/RailAmerica and the UP Salina Sub (KP Line) is now busy with coal trains and used as a relief valve for the UP transcon)

15

I have two very strong and specific recollections of The Rock while living in Chicago metro in the 1978-1982 period. In about 1981-82 I recall quite well seeing strings of old dead power in a dead line at Blue Island. There were E6-7-8 units in all the paint schemes, inlcuding the E-6 with the golden eagle on the headlight casing as well as the Bi-Centenial E as well, and all kinds of F units and Geeps, Alco’s, etc.

Not long afterwards I stumpbled upon a “special” train with three freshly painted GP7 units in the light blue and white “Route Rock” scheme, followed by (#?) box cars and a caboose in exactly the same scheme…no other cars in any other scheme, likely out for a publicity run, and then The Rock was gone forever.

Does anybody know a photo web site where I can find shots of the Rocket trains, most importantly the Peoria Rocket shown at the Peoria station?

16

Hi…This may be your lucky day.

I live in Peru, IL and have an ex-Rock Island line going through town. Peru is about 90 miles southwest of Chicago on the Illinois River, and is only a few miles from Bureau Junction. Even closer to Bureau Junction is the town of Spring Valley which is a couple miles west of Peru and was also on the RI.

Located in Spring Valley is my local hobby shop (LHS) called “The Valley Roundhouse - Home of The Rock Shop”. The owner, Marion Brasher, is a retired teacher and ex-Rock Island employee. He is also the area expert on the line, has scads of photos and info on the Rock Island, and is currently building a huge Rock Island layout in the basement of the shop, modeling the late 1960’s era
.
If anyone can help you, he should be able to, or point you in the right direction as he’s lived in Spring Valley pretty much his entire life. Of course, he can also offer first hand knowledge of Bureau Junction and the area in general, as well as the railroad. The store phone number is 815-663-3411 and the hours he’s open are Mon-Fri, 3-8pm, and Saturdays from 9am-4pm. He also has a higher than normal ra