I thought you could gain a little by reading this post I just dropped on the Classic Toy Trains forum:
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26436
[V] Bergie
Bergie,
First of all, I want to say for the record that even hideously offensive posts don’t trouble me much; I am perfectly capable of ignoring them. So I would hate to see any over-reaction for a very tiny issue.
And I am confident the management would not institute a fee. Among other alternatives, how about a more or less automatic membership for any subscriber to any of the magazines - you know WE are actual people - and some other method for non-subscribers?
Larry Fish
I’ve always thought these “sock puppet” artists were rather pathetic… Of course, some people are so nutz that the only way they are gonna get anyone to agree with their POV is if they create that other person, then spoon feed themselves accolades.
I will say that the “credit card only” idea, suxx. I tore up all of mine years ago, and rather enjoy not owing half my paycheck to a bank the first of each month.
PayPal collects too much information that is accessible by too many people.
My thought would be if you do start charging membership, you should at least be willing to take a personal check in the mail, same as you do for magazine subscriptions
I find forums of any type to be a nice convenience attached to whatever world I am interacting with (Slot cars, trains, firefighting, community issues, old friends etc) but not worth it to me to pay for. As an example, Classmates.com forced everyone to have membership in order to post on their forums a couple years ago and they died, maybe a post of two a month at best in my high school where there used to be several posts a day.
I agree that the credit card is a bad idea.
It is not that I do not trust Kalmbach; I don’t trust the people/companies who raid such information. The Pay Pal debacle is a good example.
I recently sent the following message to Trains:
My recommendation is to have a subscription number issued with the magazine. This subscription number could be used to gain access and solve the above problem. This would be advantageous because (1) it would be more likely to keep people like me on the forum by cutting the transactions in half and (2) it would be more likely to keep people who don’t want to pay for it from complaining (3) it might help your sales too.
I will support whatever decision you make. I just hope you are able to keep the process simple for me and keep the forum pool at a high level.
Gabe
Bergie,
some forums require answering an e-mail send to the e-mail adress you provided to finish your signing up, that will filter out bogus e-mail adresses,
and about the credit card stuff: how about our younger members who do not have a credit card allready, ( where I live you have to be 18 to get one ) you can’t force them to leave isn’t this supposed to be a forum for all ages ?
btw you could skip the forum fee for Kalmbach magazine subscribers, having another reason to get a subscription
If it takes the forum having to require payment in order to keep the riftraft out, as long as money order is an option (don’t know when my credit card will come in), you have my support and would love to continue to be a positive contributer to this great forum.
Thankyou Bergie,
Andrew Little
And the comment about Yahoo mail… I run my own Yahoo mail on a fully paid DSL line. I do keep a seperate junker email that I give out to websites that pump out spam or require registration to visit one time.
I feel that Trains.com is a respected site and would not want to see a subscription fee. Firstly, I dont do pay pal although I have that ability any one who actually found thier way into my pay pal will run up against a bank that is aware of this account and it is monitored DAILY. Finally the financial gain is maybe 20 dollars. Hardly worth the time and expense to get money fraudently.
I would be happy to pay a small fee yearly for this site, however it must be opened up to personal checks or money order the same way magazines are subscribed. Heck, give subscribers of magazines a "No fee access to trains.com that way they dont have to go thru the process twice.
I am sorry that people has chosen to be anonymous in thier approach to Trains.com and everyone who visit, however as we all know that the internet is full of those who desire to remain “untraceable” for whatever purpose in life.
My two cents
I think that this may be the way to go. If you have a subscription, then you would be able to post (under one user name) for free. If you do not, then you would have to pony up the money if you wanted to post. This would solve the problem for most of the underage people that don’t/can’t have a credit card (I think most of them here have a subscription already)and would keep the forum in a more civil state.
And Thanks Bergie for being the moderator and trying to keep things in order around here. I know it is a tough job, and it is very appreciated here in Colorado.
Just my two cents.
If I have to pay to communicate…I’m out of here.
FREE speech!
Bergie, No one respects decorum in the forum more than I. From what I have seen, those that come in to cause a “unnessary rukus” are delt with and in the case of most of the three, four and five stars they show a since of class that is rarely out of line. If they do go out line (out of order, to use an antiquated phrase), appologies are often either public or emailed and from what I can see are accepted.
I’ve dealt with many sites that required you to reply to an email in order to get access. Much of the process can be automated. It wouldn’t keep out the riff-raff that’s really determined, but neither will making them pay (“hey, I paid, I can say what I like!”). The subscription idea isn’t bad, but up until recently I was a loyal TRAINS reader who bought his magazine while supporting his local hobby shop.
As has been said, we don’t do a bad job of policing as it is (I noticed one post by a slightly renamed individual rapidly sinking to bottom earlier today). However things go, I’ll more than likely continue to participate.
As just the token cranky ol’ railroad guy on this board, I have to say that if it is going to become another TO style pay per view I’m not interested. This site is generally fun and has a good group of folks overall. Unfortunately, there are a few who need to get with the program or get on down the road…
I already pay enough just to be on the net. Also, although many of you know some things about me I’d prefer not to reveal my true identity for several reasons. If that becomes a prerequisite for membership I’ll have to go elserwhere. I don’t maintain multiple identities, so that is not the issue.
LC
I have to say, that except for my responses to the Grumpy man from the other night, I have posted what I feel are decent and respectable posts. I never try to purposely put anyone down and try to get them to think outside the boundaries. I apologize for participating the other night and am sorry. Thanks for not tossing me out Bergie. NOW-I like trains.com a lot, currently subscribe to MR but Trains lapsed long ago-1991 to be exact, and MR is aboout to expire to. I feel that If I am required to pay by Credit/Debit card, then no thanks. Answering a question that would get you a membership is okay, but you shouldn’t have to buy anything to be a member. As for not taking Yahoo, MSN, Hotmail email accts. Well that’s not cool either. While I have a valid e-mail account from my employer, I don’t think they would be too happy if that was the email I provided for this site. OVerall, I have to say that the few people who come on here to cause trouble is small. Dealing with them on an individual basis is a better choice. Bergie, perhaps a better way to do this is to sift through all known email addresses and ask for a response from that person. If none received in a timely manner-1-3-5 days lock them out. Thanks
Maybe more moderators is required. If you have tons of volunteer and trusted moderators, the trolls and flamers will get fed up and seek fun elsewhere.
Fort Knoxing the forum with more moderators maybe easier than setting up a fee system. I don’t mind helping out if my services are required.
I agree there can be problems on these forums. I am ambivalent about the fee for a couple reasons - younger members, bookeeping, and as pointed out - some of the real troublemakers would pony up just to be able to cause trouble. Cutting out free emailers like Yahoo would definitely hurt a lot of people. I propose much quicker and more drastic response to “problems” This has worked on other forums I frequent. Swift and immediate “execution”. After a couple times being removed even the “hardcore” will give up. While I am aware you don’t have the time to do this by yourself, what was done on the other forum was to have a “silent observer” who emailed the moderator as soon as a problem popped up. Hopefully a solution will be found that will not hurt any well behaved members.
I agree, this forum should have more moderators. Honestly, if I have to pay, I’m out of here.
Um,…“volunteer” member moderators is a REALLY BAD idea. I’ve participated in several forums that did this, and there just seems to be NO WAY to keep cliquishness out of the mix.
Certain members “kiss up” to their special pal and in consequence gain considerable leeway not available to all members.
Suppose “member mod” Joe Doaks is good buddies with several members. You come and join as a new member,…and after a few days one of those friends of Joe Doaks decides he is going to get cute with you…That may very well bother Joe far less than it will when you start defending yourself.
Once you do that, it will be YOU who is declared the trouble maker.
BAD IDEA!
If there is to be a fee, and I am not promoting that idea, I would prefer the method Mr Fish floated, ie. considered part of the price of a magazine subscription for current Kalmbach subscribers with our subscriber number used to register. Any actual fees would be assessed to non-subscribers…
I belong to several Yahoo Railroad discussion groups, and also own one myself. These sites are free, and the ones I belong to, are well run. I can’t remember the last time I had to read stuff on those groups from people out to disrupt things. The ones I belong to are well moderated, Members are generally positive and well mannered, on those free forums, they know that if they are out to disrupt, out of the group they go…I don’t think that making this a pay site is necessary…thorough screening of people looking to join will help. New members posts must be approved before appearing on posts may help too. I’ve been a member for almost a year now on Trains forums, and primarily visit the Railroad forums, and the troublemaking posts such as from the other night are rare compared to the total number of posts. Moderating would be a better answer, than making it a pay site, unless you make the forums free with a subscription to Trains, as others have suggested here… Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown