First time caller. I used to be into modelling a long time ago with my dad, but after two enlistments in the Army and graduate school…well, you know the rest. Anyways, it’s time to get all the old stuff out of the boxes.
I have a 23 x 20 basement space (with CFO approval). I plan on running an early 80’s HO layout featuring Chessie and Southern RR (I grew up in Manassas VA) but with a Great Plains look (wide open spaces, unit trains, etc). Before I start shelling out any $$$, I have a few questions while I am in the “planning” stage. I apologize in advance for the zillion questions.
I plan on purchasing Digitrax DCC unit(s). It is cost effective to buy the DCC ready locos vs. not-ready and upgrade each? Is the effort worth the savings? Also, can I DCC my turnouts (remote switch) to eliminate the wiring issues? If so, what do you recommend? Will DCC work with signals as well?
I have a bunch of old Atlas track. Can I combine it with new Flex Track with no problems or should I just start anew (no mix and match)?
Dummy units…most unit trains have multiple locos. To avoid running 4 or 5 $120.00 engines in a row, do they still make modern diesel dummy units? Conversely, with DCC, can I run multiple powered units together and will they run smoothly together?
Benchwork…I plan on building 2 foot wide around the perimeter of my basement. What is the ideal height? I am thinking around 44 inches or so (I am 6’2"). Also, the bench will not be attached to the wall, it will be free-standing. How do I avoid an uneven (not level) running surface in a basement that has a floor that is not uniformly level?
Are “below the table” turnout kits worth the money or should I assemble them myself? Is there a way to camoflauge the above table motor units, so it doesn’t look like a model railroad?
Hi, and welcome. Whew, I’ll try to wade through all this.
First, it is possible to save maybe $10-15 by shopping around for bargain decoders and locos, and then installing them yourself. Many locos come with bargain basement movement and lighting decoders, but one noteworthy manufacturer is quickly getting a less than sterling name around here because so many members have complained about their decodered locos-that is Athearn. The top drawer locomotives come with a sound decoder that usually also controls direction, lighting, and so on. Typically, you can expect to have to pay about $100 for that in addition to the basic locomotive cost. Broadway Limited Imports sells non-decodered engines for about $160 (check around), and you can add a Soundtraxx basic DSD 100 LC for about $30, but probably less. Installations that you must pay for will run form $20-50.
Next, the old Atlas track. You might be able to use it, but track is not a big expense relative to other things, but it is so important to reliable running that you might be much better off coughing up $150 and get new stuff. If your old stuff is brass rail, I would ditch it, but that is just me…it corrodes too quickly.
Many people use empty units for their sound units. An F2A/F2B set from Life Like Proto 2000(now Walther’s owns the product) is dirt cheap at trainworld.com in NYC. Gut the B-unit and mount a DSD 100 LC, as I did. You will be quite pleased, I am sure, even if the sound is generic.
Benchwork: height is a preference matter. If you will sit for any length of time, your stated height is fine. If a taller guy like you wants the eye-level view that many prefer, then judge accordingly. I would suggest about sternum height, maybe up to the clavicle. Be aware, though, that your elbows will make inadvertent contact with many foreground objects when you reach over a bench that is too high for you. As for leveling, purchase
I’ve got pretty much the same advice. I started back in the hobby about 2 years ago, but I spent 4 or 5 months reading and planning. There is good free track planning software out there which is well worth the learning curve. Atlas RTS and Xtracad (check my spelling on that one) are the two most of us use.
I had a pile of old brass track. Yes, it’s junk. You will be much happier with new track. If you do have old nickel-silver track, though, by all means use it. In HO, you probably have Code 100 track, so you’ll want to stick with that if you plan to mix-and-match. It’s a bit less prototypical than the lower rail height on Code 83, but with older equipment with deeper wheel flanges, it will work better.
I put in a lot of Atlas snap-switches. They work just fine, but I’m still kicking myself because I really, really hate those above-table switch machines. I now buy Peco turnouts, which are still twin-coil machines, but they mount below the turnout. Atlas does make a below-table machine, but it’s an add-on. Also, it has a shallow throw-bar, so you can’t mount it more than an inch below the base of the turnout. Tough luck for us 2-inch foam guys. I did take one of these and glue it directly to the bottom of the turnout, and then I hollowed out the roadbed. So far, so good on that modification. Next, I’m going to try that with a standard Atlas machine and see if it works. The big problem with that is maintenance, because you’d have to rip up the track to get at the switch machine. Also, with a standard “springy” Atlas machine, you can’t throw the turnout by hand if it’s mounted underneath.
Do you have old engines? I guess the question should be, “How old are your old engines?” I’ve actually put decoders in 50-year-old engines and made them run. Mostly, it’s not worth it, but I did get a couple of them to work well enough that I let them live on my layout.
Lots of good advice already. Since you are considering Digitrax you will find that Digitrax makes a series of products that all integrate together via the Loconet wire/bus system. These include static decoders for controlling turnout motors. Also they have a signalling system that can be deployed as well. Since all the communication traffic and the logic for the signalling and turnouts is accessible via the loconet, this architecture really lends itself to conputer monitoring/control. This is not a trivial task and not inexpensive to achieve but if you plan to add this capability Digitrax is well postioned to enable it.
I’d certainly recommend trying a Tortoise switch machine. In addition to the benefit of no table top clutter, they allow contrrolling lights or LEDS for trackside or control panel signaling. Easy to wire with a simplt DPDT toggle, and nice looking slow motion track changes.
I’m also 6’+ and think you’d like 44". My previous layout was 44" and I liked it. I went to 48" on my new one which is nicer for viewing, but harder to work on the topside.
One thought on ready to run engines with decoders is considering whether you find intricate electronic installation fun… that may be the biggest factor is whether you want to do decoder installs. If you watch for bargains, you can get sound equipped engines for some pretty good prices ($150 with sound). I don’t see many dummy engines available.
If you use Atlas #6 turnouts for your crossovers, and design your parallel tracks off of those, angles will be correct, and switching will be smooth. Get XtrkCad and you can easily see how it goes together before you lay an ounce of track.
On my new layout I have dropped 22 gauge feeders about every 6 feet… but in my hurry to get trains going, I haven’t yet hooked most of them to the track bus wire… simple enough to do, but just haven’t yet. So I’ve got the whole 14’X14’ layout running from 3 or four feeds, and it runs reliably. I’d still recommend dropping feeders every 6’. Much easier when laying track than adding later.
Whatever freqency you feed at do not depend on rail joiners to carry power along the track. If a length of rail does not have its own direct feed provide jumpers between it and the next rail… and another between that and the next again if that doesn’t have a feed.
Thanks for all the input guys! Lots of fun work ahead.
One final question dealing with laying corkbed for the track. What are the opinions about laying the corkbed directly on the playwood benchtop? I have seen some layout pics where it’s laid like that and some where there is hemosote between it (or some other insulator). I am planning on relatively flat terrain around the tracks. A direct connection seems the most stable and sturdy and definitely cheaper route. But it could be a lot louder. Thoughts on this???
I know Loy’s Toys gives you a discount if you buy five or more decoders at the same time. If you’re new to DCC I’d recommend TCS decoders - they’re a lot easier to understand and program because the booklet that comes with the decoders actually tells you how to program the CV’s. Digitrax decoders are good but they just talk about a few basic CV’s then advise you to go buy one of their books to learn how to do the rest.
I would shy away from dummies. Athearn makes them if you want to use them though. In DCC you can set all engines to run at the same speed so they can work together on a train. Plus you don’t have to spend that much money. I have a Kato DM&IR SD-38 that I run with a cheaper (but still very nice) Athearn DM&IR SD-38. Right now if you shop around you can get many really good engines in HO for less than $100…sometimes quite a bit less !!
Welcome back to modeling. Things have changed a lot since you were away, but except that prices have gone up for inflation and other factors everything is much better now. I’m not a DCC person but it does open up a whole new dimension to the model railroading experience.
Before you get too far over the horizon, I recommend taking a deep breath and wading into the deep end, not jumping off the dive board. It is very helpful to build a modest layout first and practice with the wide variety of products available and learning more about your tastes before designing and building the dream layout.
In addition to building a modest layout now, I would recommend you get many MR books on everything from track planning and benchwork to scenery and rolling stock idea books. The two books I recommend most are John Armstrong’s book Track Planning for Realistic Operation, and Bruce Chub’s book How to Operate Your Model Railroad. Unfortunately the second is out of print and will take some work to find (You’re going to have to pry mine out of my cold dead fingers ;-)). There are also a large number of idea books with track plans and MR publishes two annual magazines showing the best layouts and new ideas in track planning.
Well I am in the some boat that you are. I am building my first detailed layout as well. I do have a couple of sugestions for you.
Figure out how many feet of track and cork road bed you will need and buy it by the box. It is quit abit cheeper that way. (at least around here)
Do not rush anything. Benchwork, track, wiring, ect. (it will bit you in the long run)
I have read this alot here and have been told this by many people in person. your plain will change many times before it is done. When your lay out is done you will want to change it again.
wiring- it would have cost me about $40-$50 to by (2) 60ft. rolls of wire, so I bought (2) 500ft. rolls for $80. So when it comes time to buy your wiring, besure to look at $/Ft.
Good advice so far, but one point could use some additional detail.
The hardcore, never-trust-a friction-joint-to-carry-current crowd solders every rail joint to a feeder.
Their sworn enemies, the thermal-and-humidity-induced-expansion-causes-kinks crowd believes you need a gap between track sections to avoid, trackwork that’s perfect one day, and zig-zagged the next.
You can get the best of both worlds, by soldering a feeder to every OTHER joint. Then each section of track has a hard soldered feedwire, and every other joint can have an expansion gap.
Of course, this is likely to earn the ire of both crowds, who will then beat on your mercilessly, crushing your spirit until you fold, tear down your layout, and rebuild it one way or the other.
That said, your trains will run good, at least until you cave.
