I’m getting to the point I need to start outfitting more of my diesels There are two major categories of decoders I’ll need:
those to fit Athearn RTR plug and play sockets (I have lots of tunnel motors and SD45s)
circuit board type that fit KATO GP35/F40PH/SD40-2 and Proto 2000 GP30’s, etc.
Also Genesisi GP40-2’s, GP9’s and F units.
At one time Joe Fugate recommended the TCS T1 as an economical “fleet” decoder, but I noticed those have gone up substantially and there seem to be other decoders for significantly lower cost now from NCE and Digitrax. I do have a few T1 and T4’s but got them a few years ago when they could be had for $16/17 ea. Now they are much higher when I look at prices online.
I am looking for some low cost fleet decoders that perform as good as the TCS T1/T4 etc. but at a lower per unit cost.
Empire Trains in Webster, New York, where NCE decoders are made, sells a 10 pack of the NCE D13SRJ decoder with a harness for around $14 each, including shipping. For the models with a 9-pin JST header already installed, no soldering is required.
This is my fleet decoder. I buy them in a ten pack from caboose hobbies in denver. The 9 pin part is nice because it will plug directly in to most locomotives or a conversion harness is available for 8 pin connections.
Back when TCS T1’s were $15-16, the NCE D13SRJ was still $12 in 10 packs, and they were equivalent.
The TCS T1 of today has BEMF, the NCE does not. The Digitrax DH12x also does not have BEMF which is why it is cheaper than the T1. The comparable Digitrax current decoder would be a DH126.
It all depends if BEMF is somethign you want. You can get good slow speed out of the NCE decoders - I used to use those exclusively. But you can;t touch the ultra slow capability of a good BEMF decoder like the T1. You can save a buck for Athearn locos by getting the T1A, which comes without the wire harness and is about $1 cheaper than the T1.
I go with DH126 or DH166 decoders, depending on the quality of the loco they’re going into. I don’t really like the DH126 much, but it’s friggin cheap and gets the job done. Just like the locos it goes into. If you have the disposable income though, definitely get a decoder with BEMF.
I’ve read that BEMF is something which is not useful when loco’s are running together in MU - otherwise they supposedly buck against each other. Most of my diesels will run in MU with others so that is something I was wondering about.
I do have some TCS T4’s insalled in a few Athearn RTR tunnel motors and an SD45 and they seem to run well, and I have not adjusted any of the CV’s the control the BEMF - they are running at default settings. They did run together ok but I haven’t delved into the details.
As far as the quality of loco’s, I listed them in the first post - I’d say most of them are good to very good quality - the Athearn RTR tunnel motors and SD45’s are pretty nice although the motors are not Genesis or KATO type of course.
The feedback is appreciated - certainly keep it coming.
TCS BEMF is auto-tuning for the most part. I notice when I put a freshly decodered loco on the track, it doesn;t immediately have a nice smooth spped step 1 creep. After it runs a few feet in either direction - now it works as expected.
As for the issue when consisted - I am convinced half of it comes from the default setting on Digitrax decoders that actually turns off BEMF when using advanced consisting (like NCE uses) and the other half is myth. My typical club power consist is a pair of Proto 2000 GP7s sandwiching an Atlas Trainmaster. Both Geeps have TCS T1 decoders, the Atlas has a QSI. All have BEMF. I’ve done NO speed matching. Not even a simple CV2-6-5 three step matching. They run fine together, for hours at a time. None of them spin their wheels, none of them get dragged around. None of them run hot. And it’s not just flat running, besides the inevitable venue floor not being level so the whole layout has a bit of a grade, there are specific grades on one of the alternate routes. So far, no issues. I’ll see what happens on my new layout, which will have significant grades in some places. But I expect everything will be fine, and the only problems will be mechanical - too much end play in the drive line and so forth.
I’ve noticed the newer soundtraxx non-sound decoders work pretty well, and seem to be a fair bit less expesive than the their TCS equivalents.
I have an Athearn RTR SW1000 and SW1500, one has a TCS T4 and the other has a Soundtraxx MC2H104P9 (why can’t they make a simpler name) and they both seem to run pretty well.
As of now, I’m kind of torn for decoder choices between Soundtraxx, ESU, and TCS (in order of price, from less expensive to most expensive). Suprisingly the is less expensive then the TCS decoders.
What gets fun is trying to get a sound decoder that works well with non-sound decoder. I haven’t quiet gotten that down yet, but the last 2 sound-equipped locos I got have loksound and it’s far easier to speed match (once I found the trim adjustments in JMRI) then the QSIs or the Tsunamis I have.
I’m wondering how well the new TCS wow-sounds will work. I just wish on the new decoder they would have done a 645 non-turbo. I would love to try out the keep alive and sound in my Genesis GP15 (bought with a Tsunami, but am not happy with it)
Modeltrainstuff has the Bowser sound refit kits for $80 - that’s a Loksound Select decoder with 8 pin plug and a speaker with enclosure. Fin if you have an Alco or EMD F unit, unless you have a Loksound Programmer and can load a different sound set in them. These are full decoders, not limited feature versions. I am tempted to add to my sound inventory at that price - I only use Loksound anyway (except for that one Atlas TM with QSI). A while ago i decided t standardize on Loksound for my fleet sound decoders, they are cheaper and the diesel ones at least sound much better than Tsunami, especially the horns. Plus many of their diesel sets have just recently been re-recorded and updated. Plus the motor drive is incredible, and they don’t need a booster to program.
I have noticed that Sountraxx is now offering no-sound decoders which appear basically equivelent to Digitrax, TCS, NCE decoders and the prices looked pretty decent. Being that they appear to be more recent, I was interested if anyone had experience with them.
As far as TCS, I’ve heard great things about them and they seemed to be one of the early adopters of BEMF in their more basic decoders, now which have shot up in price - ahem, so I was hoping the other manufacturers were offering their own basic decoders with BEFM so they would be able to compete - competition is good! I was disappointed that folks were saying the basic decoders from NCE, Digitrax etc. did not appear to have BEMF so hey, get on the stick!
I have very few sound diesels, so it’s also an issue with MU - as 2 are Atlas GP40-2’s which will usually be MU’d with non sound DCC diesels. I also added a Genesis GP40-2 with Tsunami (factory equipped). Same deal, will be MU with other geeps or tunnel motors.
Another option from Digitrax would be to go with an N-scale or Z-scale (DN136 or DZ126) decoder. You cannot get the 9 pin plug on them, but they are close to the price of the “economy” HO scale decoder, sometimes even cheaper, and they have Bemf compensation. With 1.0 amp continuous and 1.5 amp peak motor drive, they have enough power to drive most modern HO scale locos.
That’s why Digitrax has 2 different lines, one with BEMF and one without, so you have an economy choice and a more advanced one, depending on how much you want to spend. I haven’t tried a Series 6 decoder yet, bu the older BEMF versions had rather poor BEMF, definitely had to tweak teh CVs to get it workign good, and even then there were certain speed steps where there’s be a lurch from one step to the next that you could almost but not quite tune out. Plus the old ones didn;t do nice lighting effects with LEDs. TCS and NCE have always handles LEDs as well as bulbs.
I’m not so sure about TCS prices shooting up. I checked some old orders, I paid $17.59 in 2009, they are $20.49 at the same dealer today. 3 bucks in 6 years is about how much everything else went up. The version sold today also adds a connector for a keep alive which the old ones do not have, and has a firmware update to program some KA settings. I may replace some with the KAT12 to get keep alive, simple plug in repalcement with the 9 pin plug.
It made some sense that everyone would eventually settle on a new base standard that included BEMF, you know, like it used to be your base level automobile used to have roll up windows and no AC, but now a days, your base model new car almost always has electric windows and AC. Something like that in the decoder world. I fully expect it will be that way, but may we aren’t quite there.
BTW, SoundTraxx is now offering basic decoders too I noticed for decent prices. Anyone tried those yet?
I guess your right about price increase, less than I thought. Anyway, my train budget is shot for the next month or two, since I sprung for a new Tangent PRR X58 box car and more Athearn RTR Hi Side Thrall gons I found that are long out of production, so I’ll continue to edumacate myself on decoders.
I doubt such a thing will happen - there are some people who are absolutely against BEMF. It’s perceived strictly as ‘cruise control’ by some, which to them means their train will automatically maintain speed up a steep grade, unrealistically. It CAN be used like that, but it doesn’t have to be. I prefer BEMF for the better performance at slow speeds when switchign and starting up. In many decoders you can configure the BEMF to drop off above certain speed steps, so at road speed it’s still subject to slowing on grades, but when starting up it is nice and slow and smooth.
TCS and Loksound do it, not in exactly the same way, but both will allow BEMF for low speed control but at road speed, going up a hill with a load, your train will slow unless you give it more throttle.
And what are my decoder choices? Why, TCS for motor only and Loksond for sound. [:D]
