Hi Everyone, I am looking for information and hopefully some pictures of Spine Roadbed. A friend of mine told me about it and I am interested in building some for my layout. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks Thayne,
Yo Thayne…
I have quite a bit of Masonite spline. If I’d known you needed help on the subject I could have discussed with you at the meeting today. Maybe you could arrange a layout visit and check it out in person to get a handle on the process. There’s some on the right hand side of this aisle…
It looks like you have local help…wonderful!
I made spline roadbed out of 1/4" MDF. I had my local hardware store cut up a 4’X8’ sheet in a bunch of 15/16" strips eight feet long. You will need crosspieces and braces, or stringers, to provide anchor points for the risers that support your roadbed, about 10 inexpensive clamps, wood glue, 2" wood or deck screws, and a bit that countersinks heads of such screws. You will also need 1X2 spruce or pine for risers. I haven’t looked for youtube videos showing how to make the spline roadbed, but there may be one or two.
Crandell
Hi I am also interested in spine roadbed, what are its advantages / disadvantages? Chris.
Here is one of many good how to pages on spline roadbed complete with pictures and a advantage/disadvantage section towards the end
http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/howto/splines/index.shtml
ratled
hi,
I never used a spline roadbed, maybe some-one is able to explain how vertical easements are made.
It will be very hard (IMHO impossible, hence the question) to curve a spline vertically.
Paul
Thanks! For the responses guys! I also found some info on the topic by Googleing spline road bed. Please keep the info and comments coming if you have any?
Rob, Hey thanks I would like to come and see you layout, Scott was telling me about the spline roadbed and I am interested in the process.
Thayne,
Several of the layouts in the Omaha area have used Homasote spline. The roadbed is cut into 2’ strips and then the splines are screwed together with drywall screws. No glue required. There is a lot of dust cutting the strips but less mess afterwards since there is no sanding of the top surface required. You can handlay track directly into the top of the splines, no roadbed required. For curves below 24", a former is usually required to get the first piece to curve smoothly. Vertical curves are just as the stuff bends when you pick it up.
If you are going to be building a permanent layout where you are going to handlay the track, will have broad curves and smooth grades, its a very slick way to build the benchwork. If you are building a 4x8 with sharp curves and rapid grade changes, its not so good.
Paul, I have only made the one attempt with splines, and that was with the one material, MDF. It is one of the great advantages of splines that they act as laths that are bent to form natural easements, and in the case of splines made with MDF, at least, easements in both axes. So, in the case of MDF, and in my limited experience, merely desiring transitions/easements, and adjusting riser heights and curves in azimuth accomplish both of these aims (requirements, really) very easily.
How it works is that you laminate any three of the strips I talked about earlier by gluing all abutted surfaces with a thin layer of wood glue and then placing those surfaces against each other. They are placed tightly against 3" screws driven down into the tops of the risers, centered. The screws sticking out of the tops of the riser centers are the pivot/anchor points around which curves are bowed. So, you glue three, place them so that the strips are all oriented on their thin sides against the anchor screws, and bend the three splines (which they now comprise) to meet another screw on the tops of subsequent/nearby risers. You begin to clamp at one and, usually the mated end to the last set of splines placed and allowed to dry so that they retain the desired curve, and keep clamping along the newly placed spline, say every 10", until the entire new spline is both clamped together, AND clamped against the anchor screws around which the curves are made.
When transitioning from level to grade, or vice-versa, you should plan that to be situated away from the intersection of the two spline lengths. Since you are gluing the spline lengths together where they interect to form the continuous length you desire, it will be stiff there and won’t conform naturally to the curvature in either axis. So, try to have your joint maybe over a riser, ideally, and let the rest of the spline length take the continuous shape and changes of axis that you desire.
It may not be
There was another thread on spline roadbed on this forum this summer, you might check this out for some more information:
This is my first layout using spline. It is also my first using grid benchwork with foam on top. I don’t have a lot to add as the websites suggested are the ones I learned from. Wonderful thing, this internet.
If you are using foam as well you can see in the lower left where my spline butts up against the 2" foam to start its climb up through the Rockies. At the other end out of the picture it goes down into the foam until the top of the spline is level with the top of the foam.
It is pretty tough to see any vertical transition with spline as it looks so natural. This is also true with going into and out of curves. Super elevation is easily added using a small level and a rasp.
A lot of the websites suggest using spline strips 7/8s of an inch high. I made mine 1 inch high as my risers were not all the same distance apart. As soon as you put a curve into it, the distance between the risers changes. Having 1 inch high splines made doing the math in my tiny brain much easier as far as the height of each riser goes.
One thing I did was vary the climb rate along the way up the hill. This made the whole flow of the route look great. Having a set grade from the bottom of the hill to the top adds to a toy like look. I have spent a lot of time in the Canadian Rockies around the CPR mainline and am pretty sure they don’t use WS foam risers with a set grade.[(-D]
One thing I often think about and have been meaning to put up for discussion is, how big of a layout do you need before using spline is a good idea. Forty feet for under $10.00 seems like a bargain as far a cost go.
At this point in time I would build any future layout using the materials I used on this one. But if new methods and/or materials come along I’ll be first in line to have a look.[:)]
Here is an old video showing trains on the spline.
I’m building a layout right now using spline roadbed. I like the way such a roadbed creates natural transition curves. I’m building it the same way I did my first spline roadbed over 30 years ago.
I get some clear pine (not as easy to find as 30 years ago, and not near as inexpensive) and rip it to 1/4 inch thick on my table saw. I attach risers to the benchwork and calculate any needed grades when attaching them. A single spine is then nailed, with a thin brad, to the riser at the center of the right of way. Two more splines are then glued in place, with 1/2 inch spacers between them and the center spline. This makes a 1 and 3/4 inch wide subroadbed, to which I glue homasote.
The only problem in assembling the subroadbed in this way is you needs LOTS of clamps. I use homemade C-clamps that were described by Linn Wescott in a book he wrote in the mid-sixties. In Fact, I’m useing the same clamps I made back in 1979.
It’s a lot of work . . . but I think the results are well worth it.
The best advantages are that the splines form natural horizontal AND vertical easements. I used a digital level to set the heights of my risers to the desired grade, and set a brad in the center to mark the track centerline. If your splines are consistent widths - which translates into height when they’re installed atop the risers - the s;line surface follows the same grade as the risers, and the curves just flow beautifully around their intended path. Make sure you have some plywood arcs cut out in 1/4, 1/3, and 1/2 circles of your minimum radius to make sure your splines don’t get any sharper than the arcs. And be sure to study the NMRA’s RP on track centers to make sure any parallel tracks don’t encroach on one another. After setting the centerline spline, I cut 3 inches off the length of the next spline, 6 inches off the next, and 9 inches of the next, so I can stagger the ends of the splines to make super strong joints. And I use lots of clamps! I bought 50 of those $1 clamps at Home Depot, and found I needed 50 more. And then another 25! But that way I can work on splines in 2 different locations if needed, and I can put the clamps rights next to each other. I also alternate the clamps above and below the roadbed. And there are the downsides - the clamps are sometimes awkward to install and remove, when the glue drips it’s hard to wipe if off the roadbed (above and below) with the clamps installed, and until the glue sets, it’s actually a lubricant, so you HAVE to make sure the spline tops are even, and I find that to be difficult. Clamp from one end, and install them all the way to the other end. Then go read a book for 15 or 20 minutes, or work on another project in between clamping sessions. Keep a pail of water handy, and some rags, to wipe up the glue on top and bottom of the splines, and to rinse out the rag. After a session with the splines, my hands ache from squeezing the clamps and fiddling with the spline
If you look at either the Allen Keller videos or by his book Howard Zane shows you exactly what you will need to do when constructing spline sub roadbed. I tore a page form Mr. Zane’s book and built my existing layout using 3/4" pine shelving and ripping it into 1/4" thick strips and held together with hot glue. Be prepared to make a run on Home Depot and bring your credit card and clean them out of spring clamps because your going to need an awful lot of them. I think I purchased some where around 40 or so. Whitley glue or yellow carpenters glue will work well but hot glue sets up really fast which is nice when you want to lay down a lot of subroadbed in one night. How ever White glue isn’t going to burn the living daylights out of you when you get it on your fingers arms and hands and you most definitely will burn yourself with a hot glue gun it’s a given.Not detracting from the great Zane’s methodology of spline roadbed but speaking form personal experience it’s virtue besides being great for making nice long sweeping curves and easements is that it’s cheap as heck. So if your building a large railroad then by all means anything you can do to save money is always a good thing. If your like many who are building a small to medium sized railroad then the cost vs the effort by using cookie cutter or plywood subroadbed such as Tony Koester has on his new layout may be an easier way to go. I have used both methods and both have their pluses and minuses. If yo do go with spline subroadbed you will need to put homasote on top of it and then if you choose roadbed of your choosing on top of it, I use strictly Homabed the stuff is the next best thing to sliced bread as far as I’m concerned. If you use cookie cutter or plywood subroadbed you just attach you roadbed onto the plywood and thats it. You can a fix your track directly to the homasote that has been attached to your splines but if you want the ballast shoulders thats another cut you will have to make to your homasote.
Thanks for the Replies guys! I am following all of your posts. A friend of mine and I are just starting to come up with my track plan. My bench work is complete and I am sure what ever we come up with will include some spline roadbed on the layout. I really like what I have seen and learned so far. If you have anything to add please do! Thank you again!
Thayne.
[quote user=“Allegheny2-6-6-6”]
If you look at either the Allen Keller videos or by his book Howard Zane shows you exactly what you will need to do when constructing spline sub roadbed. I tore a page form Mr. Zane’s book and built my existing layout using 3/4" pine shelving and ripping it into 1/4" thick strips and held together with hot glue. Be prepared to make a run on Home Depot and bring your credit card and clean them out of spring clamps because your going to need an awful lot of them. I think I purchased some where around 40 or so. Whitley glue or yellow carpenters glue will work well but hot glue sets up really fast which is nice when you want to lay down a lot of subroadbed in one night. How ever White glue isn’t going to burn the living daylights out of you when you get it on your fingers arms and hands and you most definitely will burn yourself with a hot glue gun it’s a given.Not detracting from the great Zane’s methodology of spline roadbed but speaking form personal experience it’s virtue besides being great for making nice long sweeping curves and easements is that it’s cheap as heck. So if your building a large railroad then by all means anything you can do to save money is always a good thing. If your like many who are building a small to medium sized railroad then the cost vs the effort by using cookie cutter or plywood subroadbed such as Tony Koester has on his new layout may be an easier way to go. I have used both methods and both have their pluses and minuses. If yo do go with spline subroadbed you will need to put homasote on top of it and then if you choose roadbed of your choosing on top of it, I use strictly Homabed the stuff is the next best thing to sliced bread as far as I’m concerned. If you use cookie cutter or plywood subroadbed you just attach you roadbed onto the plywood and thats it. You can a fix your track directly to the homasote that has been attached to your splines but if you want the ballast shoulders
Allegheny2-6-6-6:
If you do go with spline subroadbed you will need to put homasote on top of it and then if you choose roadbed of your choosing on top of it,
No you don’t. At my club we handay track directly on pine spline. Works totally fine.
Here’s one section under construction where you can see some of it coming together:
http://www.wrmrc.ca/construction40.html
I also laid my track directly on my spline surfaces, but in retrospect, I ought to have use one thickness less or bevelled the edges as Joe Fugate does so that I could achieve the right ballast edge profile. It still turned out okay in most places, but…
We make our spline at the club only as wide as the ties. We typically cut strips or pieces of styrofoam to blend into the foam scenery.