I have been working on a design for my unit trains and have run into a problem. I based my unit train lengths off 4 locos and 62 cars representing a scale size unit train since I can’t do 110 or 125. The total measurements came out for a loop at a 6.5 foot radius making it a 13 foot wide loop. I need ideas to make a smaller one since that’s HUGE!
Some elementary ideas:
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Smaller scales - you do not say what scale you are in, but a train in N scale (1:160 scale) or Z scale (1:220 scale) obviously can fit more cars in a given length on your layout than a train in H0 scale (1:87.1 scale) or O scale (1:45 scale, depending on what kind of prototype you follow)
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We represent a real life train by a smaller train, and use techniques from the theater to make things look bigger.
For instance - if you cannot see both the front and the rear of the train at the same time, it will look “long”. If it takes a long time to pass, it will look “long”.
So you use “view blocks” (things that prevent you from seeing the whole train at the same time - say you can only see about 8-10 cars of the train at any time and your train is moving slowly. Then a 25-30 car train will look quite long as it slowly passes the point where you are located.
You make sure you introduce choke points to your layout, so a train arriving will have to go into a siding (perhaps with part of the train still hidden behind the viewblock), and wait for a minute or two for another train coming in the opposite direction to pass the siding, before your original train starts moving slowly again.
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Adjusting your theme and era to fit the available space. Instead of modeling a long unit train or a long passenger train (and then not having room for much more than having your train chase it’s own tail round and round on a track, with four car lengths between the end of the train and the locos), you pick a theme and era where you could run smaller trains - say a sleepy branch line where a typical train is a loco and two passenger cars, or a loco and 8-10 40-foot freight cars.
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A different layout footprint than a loop at a rectangular table sometimes
It’s not clear what you are trying to accomplish.
If this is a reversing loop at one end of the layout and you need it to hold the train that you describe, then you could do a double (or triple) spiral loop with a bridge crossing from the inside to the outside.
Paul
Hi Nary,
if you are building in HO the figures match. Assuming the average car-length is about 50 ft (7" in HO) the length of a 62 car train with 4 engines is close to 40 ft. The same length can be found in a reversing loop with a 13 ft diameter. Huge indeed; radii above 40" on HO-layouts are seldom seen and even considered a waste of space by John Armstrong; unless applied in cosmetic curves.
E.G. reducing prototype train-length and radii is called selective compression, unavoidable in modeling. Try to model a curve with a prototype 2000 ft mainline radius, even these had speed restrictions.
To my experience train-length is often less then half-the-length of the layout space. Since any layout with depth over 30" has reach-in issues you will have a lot to consider.
Smile
Paul
Are you just trying to bring the train around in continuous running, or will the train effectively be “leaving the stage” to continue the theater analogy? If it’s the latter case, then you don’t need to turn the train, just move the engines to the other end, and either the caboose or the FRED, depending on era. This can be done with a passing siding and some switching, and doens’t require a loop. You could even just define that last 40 feet or so of track as a “fiddle track” where it’s legal to pick up and move locomotives and cars to accomplish “staging” tasks.
Nary, welcome to the forum.
As others have mentioned. You’ve already employed the idea of selective compression, going from 110 cars to 62. You need to do more.
Wise modelers have said that a person’s field of vision, from a reasonably normal viewing distance, is about 15 feet of layout, or about 20 to 30 HO cars. A person can’t see what is beyond their field of vision, so If you fill up your field of vision with train, it will look like a long train.
Using 62 cars simply repeats that same view twice, so you’re not really gaining much considering the amount of space you need to achieve that length.
Try using 3 locos and 30 cars and see what kind of space you need to achieve whatever you’re trying to do. I think that size train will be a convincing representation of a unit train.
How big is your overall layout? Your suggested train is about 40 feet long. On most home layouts, it would already be chasing its tail if running in a loop. I agree with the idea of using a much shorter train to represent this.
You have four locomotives? BNSF pulls 112 car trains across our prairie with two locomotives in front and one in back. They can do it with just two in the front, but the rear locomotive adds better control.
As a model, LION thinks 30 cars would be plenty.
NYCT runs 10 car subway trains, LION runs 6 car subway trains, him has not the space for longer trains or especially longer platforms. They look good and that is all I can ask for.
ROAR
New post by OP in another thread: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/206396.aspx
Short summary - he is not actually doing a practical design for a specific space, just doing some vague dreaming about a huge layout with both H0 scale 60+ car coal trains and 60+ car grain trains with balloon tracks for loading unit trains, and will “maybe one day build my own outbuilding or pitch the idea to a club”, to quote his post.
Smile,
Stein