Apologies accepted, Wayne, but these errors occur way too often. I am beginning to suspect that this may be intentional on your part. My therapist tells me to ignore it and move on. I try, but I can’t. [8o|]
Rich
Alright already, Ed, that’s enough. [|(]
Rich
Thanks for that link. I will get that book.
Rich
Good point, Mr. B. Something to think about.
Rich
I hesitate to comment since Ed is one of the most knowledgeable folks on the forum. But this isn’t the track plan that was built. It was one of the proposals, but not what was built. The LAUPT book has the as-built track plan. My copy of the book is still packed away so I can’t provide an image. Bruce Petty and Larry Mullaly’s book on the SP in Los Angeles has some good information on the history of the terminal and a track plan.
IiRC, the Santa Fe San Diagan trains were the only trains that backed in. All others pulled in. Several pairs of tracks had a middle engine escape track with crossovers near the end. Terminal switchers then pulled the consists to the respective coach yards, and in the process turned them on the Mission Tower wye. ATSF coach yard was alongside the Los Angeles River at the 8th Street Yard - still used today
All of the tracks are stub-end, but some had escape tracks (between tracks 6 & 7, 8 & 9, and 10 & 11). LAUPT (now L.A. Union Station) is a terminus, meaning no through trains. It was either the starting point or ending point of a run.
Arriving trains would head into the terminal for debarkation, then either run or be dragged backwards by switchers to the respective railroads’ coach yards and engine terminals. There was no actual coach yard directly servicing the terminal. Santa Fe had a coach yard just south along the west bank of the L.A. river, which is now the Amtrak coach and engine terminal. Terminal Annex, the U.S. Post Office facility is right next to the terminal, and additional tracks diverged from the throat to service that facility.
Departing trains would run or be pulled backwards into the terminal for emkarkation, then head out to the respective roads’ mainlines.
The best shift I worked that summer in 1967 was the day our crew dragged train 104, the eastbound City of Los Angeles backwards, without road power, into LAUPT with a GP9. Since there was no escape track available, we took a long lunch at a nearby Denny’s and got back in time to watch them couple the E units onto the train while people were boarding. That hogger had one smooth touch. The baggage car didn’t even move, let alone any of the passenger cars.
The trackage at LAUPT was controlled by Terminal Tower. A short distance away, Mission Tower controlled all the trackage from the various railroads and crossing the Los Angeles River.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bruce
That’s why I mentioned the 1920 date but I should have elaborated that it was a drawing concerning the elimination of grade crossings and, yes, as you point out, a proposal.
Generally, we modelers are going to have to settle for a compromise in order to fit what trackage we deem necessary and trim off the rest so a “representative” track plan may at least suffice for our needs.
Regards, Ed
Thanks, Ray, for that additional info.
It all sounds very similar to the way that operations took place at Dearborn Station in Chicago which I model on one end of my layout. My plan is to build the LAUPT on the other end of my layout, so all of this information is helpful.
Rich
Bruce, thanks so much. And, yes, this info helps greatly. I very much appreciate your inpu
Thanks, Ed. The operative word in your reply is “compromise”. Try as I might, there is no way that I can exactly replicate the track work at Dearborn Station or LAUPT. My layout space is 42’x25’. If I divorced my wife, the layout space could increase to 60’x34’. But, I would need a 100’x100’ outbuilding to even come close to replicating the track work at those two passenger terminals.
Rich
I have been doing some further research on the Los Angeles Union Passenger Terminal since the last update to this thread. My main issue is to determine the basic dimensions of the various structures that comprise LAUPT. These dimensions have changed a bit over the years as architectural changes have been made to the passenger terminal. I have settled on a preliminary design, but I am open to suggestions for change.
The Walthers LAUPT kit would be my first choice, but it is discontinued and pricey when it was in stock. After further research, my objection to the Walthers kit is that it uses selective compression and omits the left found on the prototype structure. The overall width of the Walthers model is 29 inches. From front to back, it is approximately 22 inches.
Source: Walthers Cornerstone - Walthers.com
I was able to locate some architectural drawings that show the left wing missing from the Walthers model.
Source: kcet.org
Using Google Maps, I captured a 3D angle look at the current station which gives an overal aerial view of the station.
Source: Google Maps
Here is my preliminary design which includes the left wing missing from the Walthers kit. The overall width would be 48 inches. That is a massive structure in HO scale, but I believe that I will have the space to do it. Before I start scratch building, I have to confirm that this design will fit in the available space. I also need to do some design work on the passenger station tracks, of which there where 10, but I may settle for a few less tracks depending upon the available space.
One thing that I noticed on t
Hey Rich-
Your plan view and front elevation view sketches look pretty good. When a design idea forms inside your head, there are a lot of variables. But you have nailed down a lot of variables into hard points and dimensions. This is an important step.
Here’s a screen capture image from Google Earth street view showing the station as it exists today (or at least fairly recently). Is this the time frame you model? Or, will your station be configured to a previous era? Do you have any up close and detailed photos of the windows and doors and whatnot to help develop your model? I get the impression there are some more architectural plans around for the original construction and for the various renovations that have occurred.
Keep up the good work.
Robert
Robert, nice to hear from you. Thank you for your words of support.
The time frame that I plan to model is the mid-1950s to the mid-1960s. I know that there have been architecural changes over the years, so I still need to pinpoint the period around 1960, give or take 5 years before or after. I need to get my hands on one or both of the two books cited earlier in this thread.
The design of the windows and doors remain an open question in my mind. I can get good views of the current windows and doors, but I am not at all certain if those designs were there around 1960.
For example, in the architectural drawing above, the original design was a 3 by 3 window pattern, and the top of the palladian window frame were 3 larger windows. In the current design, it is a 5 by 5 window pattern, and the top of the palladian wi
Rich, if you need a look at the inside of the station, watch the 1950 film Union Station with William Holden and Barry Fitzgerald. All of the interior scenes were filmed inside the station. It’s a great film noir.
It was also featured in The Dark Knight Rises and Blade Runner.
Great idea, Andy. I will do it. Thanks.
Rich
I don’t recall a lot of footage from the outside of the building but there is some.
The outside I have figured out but the inside is something that I would like to explore. I normally don’t decorate the inside of my buildings but this could be fun for such a prominent structure.
Rich
Union Station is ranked #62 in Trains magazine’s 100 Greatest Train Movies special publication. FWIW
Well, there you go. [Y]
Rich
Rich, regarding the truncation of LAUPT, I had PM’d you about Milwaukee’s Everett Street Station and how the Walther’s version is also truncated in a similar way: two whole wings (one on each end of the station) are missing from the Walther’s kit for space reasons. With those wings included the kit would probably be pushing 4’ long.
Here is a screenshot of the station showing the missing wing on the north end:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/88/fb/1888fb165c0531c53c21b49a21a6c585.jpg
You can also see the extra wings on this site for an N scale laser-printed depot that looks really nice.
https://www.therailroadconnection.com/products/product_2887f06c-20d7-ff08-61b0-66fd9d723463
Just an interesting tidbit I’m sharing here since your PM access is out right now.