Hmmm…
A guy comes to the board and for his very first post relates a story making a rather outlandish claim. Then he seems to disappear and never follows up the discussion. I did a search on his name, and he has not made one other post on any of the Trains.com boards since this first post two weeks ago.
Does anyone besides me smell troll? [:-,]
Yeah, sounds like one
hey okrasaghis-
You’re correct, the G&D had three 2-6-6-2 and a 0-6-6-0 (converted from a 2-6-6-2). That’s what I meant to write but it was in the wee hours when I posted it. Considering the nature of this post and the need to be as accurate as possible when discussing anything of John Allens G&D that may have survived (the original topic) I apologize if I made an unclear statement…
Like most everyone has expressed, either this ‘one-poster’ was just fishing for a sucker, or realized he got suckered by the seller. We’d all be thrilled to learn that something as historically significant as this mystery engine had survived the fire. I do agree if something smells like a rat, it’s probably a rat.
I bet that John Allen, (who, according to Linn Wescott, was quite the practical joker), wherever he may be, is laughing his tail off at all the fuss his life long fans still make over him and his railroad, and all the admiration we hold for him because he inspired so many.
BILL
Well, if he WAS a troll, he started a nice discussion about the whereabouts of any surviving G&D locomotives, as well as some details on the roster.
I guess, as trolls go, this one did a pretty good job!
Rob
I agree wholeheartedly - forced me to locate my copy of Linn Wescott’s book on the G&D and to reread it for the umpteenth time. Then I dragged out a bunch of MR issues from the mid '50s and looked at the old Varney ads done by John Allen. I found a couple of old articles in those mags very relevant to the new layout I’m planning, which prompted me to look something up on the net, and one link led to another, and so on and so on. Thanks ‘Mr.Troll’ - it was a worthwhile journey !
BILL
Sounds like JohnAllenFan realized he got dupped into buying a Varney engine with G&D lettering that had been added after the fact. Like the old addage goes,
“If it sounds too good to be true…”
Just wanted to add, even if it isnt a Allen original, if it still is a Varney engine, its still something always good to have for a collector, just hope he didnt ended paying too much for the Allen provenance…
…or find a Tyco stamp on the bottom of it!
I have been following this thread with interest for some time, as I too am somewhat of a fan of John Allen. Like the add for a recent elvis complilation CD goes, Before anyone did anything, John Allen did everything. It is obvious the topic of the fire is a central item of discussion in any G&D discussion. However one thing I have never heard of, is what started the fire that destroyed the layout. Its like hearing about the Space Shuttle Challenger blowing up during launch and never hearing why.
Thanks to those who know in advance.
According to Linn Westcott, the fire was initially blamed on the G & D’s wiring, but a “private fire investigator commissioned by Andrew Allen (John’s brother) later determined that a faulty gas floor furnace in ther Helengon Gap alcove (on the G & D) was the culprit” . Apparantly John seldom used the furnace, and Linn Wescott asserted that John probably knew the furnace wasn’t properly vented to the outside.
Ten days after John passed away, a group of regular G & D operators were invited by Andrew Allen to visit and operate the G & D. When the operating session was over that evening around 11PM, and since the house was vacant, the crew shut down all the power to the G & D layout and lighting, turned off the gas water heater and adjusted that floor furnace’s thermostat to 65 degrees to keep the humidity in check. About an hour after the crew left, or around midnite, a neighbor called the Monterey Fire Dept. reporting smoke and sparks coming from John’s house. Even though the fire dept. responded quickly, a portion of the house-the basement-was almost completely consumed, along with the G & D, except as noted elsewhere in this topic string.
The house was later repaired and resold. Don’t know the status of it now, however.
Thanks Bill.
James
Guys,
The house is still there and is occupied. One of my train friends drove by it recently just for nostalgia’s sake.
It was my understanding that the heater was actually part of the layout and that John never used it because he knew it would cause provblems. I also believe he used a glue and paper mixture for his hard shell which would account for the rapid spread of the fire and thorough destruction of the layout and surrounding space.
Guy
Even if this is not a real John Allen engine (very doubtful) its still good to know that people still think so much of his modeling. I first saw his layout in an old model train magazine in which he descibed how he built the original G&D Layout. After that I was hooked. He did amazing things with his layout. I have the book that Linn wrote and I’m still amazed everytime I open it. He has been a very big influence on many generations of modelers and I suspect he will continue to be so in the future.
John
I remember the issue of MR that had a black frame around a picture of the G&D in the cover announcing his death and the fire. Then the next issue had Linn Westcotts death announcement. It was a double whammy.
Uh - actually John Allen died in January 1973 and Linn Westcott in September 1980. It was the passing of an era.
Paul
Hello Again,
Sorry to drop a squirrel in the church social and leave but I had to go away for 3 weeks on business. The fellow I purchased the train from is Keith Blanchard and he owns one of John Allen’s locos, the #43 Berkshire (I’ve seen the photos). Keith’s uncle owned the hobby store in Monterey, CA?
Keith wrote to me, “I am from Monterey originaly and grew up under John’s layout. There probably would not be any additional value because it was John’s. I thought that prospective new owner should know the history and maybe would appreciate it a little more. I have sent an email to Andy at Model Railroader Mag just in case he wants to add this one to his Allen collection. I should have just sent it to him. I did not think of it until it was too late. John was just one of our friends and we never thought of him as a celebrity.”
Keith further stated, “20 years ago we displayed the loco (#43) at Josephine DeRandle museum in San Francisco and they insured it for $10,000. I probably couldn’t sell it because it has sentimental value to me. All the other smaller things didn’t mean as much. I salvaged a lot of the G&D and have sold and given most if it away over the years. #43 caries the G&D logo and is the only surviving large road engine because it was in a box on the floor. Your tank loco also was in the same situation.”
So I hope to prove I have a John Allen loco (a tiny one but one none the less). I certainly believe Keith and think I own a John Allen loco, what do the rest of you think?
I think I’ll be speaking for the group –
BILL
Hello,
How can I post some photos? I have kept it in a special display case all these years in regards to it’s status. I can take digital photos of it for anyone interested. I was really hoping someone would know Keith so I could find out if he is for real. I suspect he is and maybe I need to find this Andy Sperandeo fellow for further confirmation. I leave for another 3 weeks on the road but will try to answer any e-mails in a timely manner at t.brockman@att.net; thank you in advance.
I was suggesting that you take some digital photos of it and post them on this topic string. If you need guidance as to how to post them here, please ask and someone will direct you to the topic that covers that.
We want to assist you in determining whether you have a ‘John Allen original’, but you aren’t offering up much to go on. You should email Andy Sperandeo and perhaps he’ll have some leads for you to follow. I personally think asking Forem members to comment on the integrity of, or vouch for the character and credibility of someone who sold you this engine, is a bit over the top, and perhaps you should do that in a more private fashion. Apparantly no on who has respsonded thus far knows who he is, and even if they did, what would you learn from their comments (about the person) that would establihe validity of his claim that he sold you an authentic G & D engine. The engine, and only that engine, will establihat, because the chain of ownership that you have presented, is too weak for it, in itself, to substantiate any link to John Allen. At least that is my opinion.
When you’re back in town and can take the time to post the pictures, I’m sure you’ll find some ready, willing and able John Allen fans eager to assist you. If you aren’t willing to post any pictures, I’m afraid I’ll lose further interest in spending anymore time on this topic, because it isn’t going anywhere.
if you have digital pictures, you can email them to me. i can upload them to my website and post them here for you.
Hello,
The suggestion has been made that I “…should email Andy Sperandeo”. Good advice except I don’t know how to reach Mr. Sperandeo. That is one of the things I was hoping this group could help me on, does anyone have an e-mail address for Mr. Sperandeo?
Thanks in advance.
There is a former G&D operator living here in Tombstone, Arizona. He doubts the authenticity of that locomotive.