Greetings all! I am new to the Lionel O gauge collecting. Admittedly, I am in in more for the play value than the collecting. Previously I have built 2 model HO layouts (I owned and operated a hobby shop at the time, long since closed)
I am finding the Lionels a lot more fun. Just bigger, easier to handle, and the accesories are much cooler.
I am currently trying to figure out how to wire the UCS tracks to the control buttons. Help?
Also any tips on the keeping sidings isolated? I have installed the fibre pins, and was figuring on a simple 2 pole switch to turn on the power to the siding… I am just installing switch tracks now… much harder than I thought!!
The 4 conductor cable from the Lionel control has a tracer on the side of one of the outer conductors, this connects to the right hand terminal on the track. This is for “O” tubular track.
For isolating sidings I use a SPST switch on the power to the center rail with an insulating pin on the center rail only.
Igy, welcome to the forum and don’t be discouraged as it isn’t as hard as you think. It’s only because this is all new to you.
Now if you are using FasTrack, that’s something I have not used. I use old reliable cost effective 027 track. Though basic wiring rules apply. Yes, on your sidings you would use an insulated pin in the center rail and then using lockons or I prefer soldering, connect a wire to a SPST switch going from that insulated section of track to the post on your transformer that is being used for the center rail. It’s probably a good idea to have some sort of wire terminal strip off that post of the transformer as you may want more insulated sections in the future.
Or a simple way to avoid excess wiring under the layout is to use a slide or toggle switch right on the layout near the insulated section. I find slide switches work better. You can even disquise the SPST slide switch as some sort of terminal or railside power box. Then you’d just solder the wires from one side of the insulated pin section of track to the other side, The switch can even be mounted in the layout board. This works well for areas within easy reach of arm’s length or using a stick (as I do) with a hook on one end and a rubber protector on the other… that’s my primitive version of “command control.”
Also labeling your wires with self sticking labels (like mailing address labels) as you go along will save future aggrivation. You can use color wires for specific purposes, but then they can add to your costs. Either way, labeling the wires is a way to make future troubleshooting much easier.
I’ve modified my operating cars to do without a operating control track. But for uncoupling tracks, I prefer to re-wire them so they can take auxiliary power since the way they come, they use track power. And sometimes the trains are not using enough power to operate the UC track.
Welcome to the CTT Forum. Here are a couple of useful resources for Lionel.
If it is Modern era you can find many of the manuals here on the Lionel web site under Customer Service tab/Owners Manuals/Service Documents and use the entry windo for the product name or part number. There is also a place to download or view the service manuals - but be aware many of these documents are 5 - 50 MB in size. The service manuals lag current product release by several years.
Thanks for the info guys! Olsentoys had the diagrams I need for the UCS track and control wiring.
Great info on only isolating the center rail, and using a SPST switch. One question related to that… where should I draw the power for it? From the track on the other side of the switch, or right from the transformer? I am not worried about concealing anything. My layout is for play value, and I am not doing scenery this time.
I am using only O gauge. My 4 lines are 031, 042, 054, and 072. I am using only older stuff where possible, most of the track is Lionel N.Y. Some of it is the newer chinese crud, but it was what I could get. I am using only manual 042 switches.
I had to get an automatic milk car. My uncle had one of those with the trains he put around the Christmas tree… and I thought at the tim, one day I will have one of those. 35 years later… I got one!
Isolating the power for controlling that UCS track sounds like a great idea, how would I go about that? I am guessing it would involve isolating the center rail from the rest of it?
For the UCS section, to run it from XFMR power, do not hook up the third wire to the third screw terninal (from the perspective of looking at the UCS with the screw terminals towards you).
Instead hook the third wire from the UCS controller (the same wire you did not connect to the third UCS track screw terminal) to a XFMR accessory post. Assuming you are using the same XFMR for the accessory as you are for the trains, the common for the AC is obtained for the UCS from the UCS outside rails.
If you are using a separate XFMR for accessories, then you need to connect the U posts of the two transformers together to get the accessory transformer connected to the track outside rail. Then connect the third wire of the UCS controller to the accessory transformer.
There may be some older Lionel XFMRs that could have a problem being connected in this manner (U to U posts) as Lionel was not consistent in use of the U post as an AC common. If this is the case I am sure Bob Nelson on this forum will be able to provide you some guidance on which XFMRs might have a problem. To assist let us know what Lionel XFMRs (Lionel model #) you are using for this.
Here is a link to wiring diagram for the UCS (which I think you have already found).
The general rule is that Lionel transformers with multiple variable outputs, like KW, Z, V, ZW, and VW use U as the common, which should be connected to the outside rails generally. Those with a single variable output, like the 1033 and many other small transformers, usually use U as the variable output and often allow a choice among a couple of other terminals for the common, in order to select between voltage ranges.
If the CW-80’s date code begins with “G”, U is common. Otherwise, A and B (which are connected together internally) are common, but the whistle and bell functions are swapped.
For the A, if you use A as the common you get 14-24 volts from U. If you use B as the common, you get 6-16 from U.
For the S, if you use A as the common, you get 10-19 volts from U. If you use B as the common, you get 5-14 from U.
For the Z, U is common.
For the two-terminal 45-watt transformer, it doesn’t matter which terminal you use for common.
I don’t know about the Powermax.
Note that the transformers will not necessarily be in phase just because you connect the commons together. For that, you need to reverse the plugs as needed.
The Lionel Z 250 watt post war transformer don’t have a whistle button just four power outputs and four common terminals, on the post war Z & ZW the common terminals are all connected internally. The smaller watt transformers won’t run more than one engine, usually guys use them for lighting or accessories. You should have at least an 80 watt transformer to power most train sets, especially if you have a lighted passenger set.
Don’t confuse a Lionel post war Z or ZW with an MTH Z-750 or Z-1000 or Z-4000, as these are totally differant transformers. One thing about running MTH engines; they don’t work well with a Lionel CW-80 transformer, messes up the commands to the MTH engine.
I like to run the power for my sidings straight from the transformer to the switch and then to the siding. The way you described in one of your postings that may use almost twice the wire if I am reading correctly. The other thing I do is to use a DPDT(double pole double throw)switch for my sidings and disconnect power to the mainline while I have an engine on the side track.
OK. I gotta admit, I am pretty confused here. I have realized thatI need to isolate more sections of the layout than I thought. Maybe I should be looking for a wiring book? I read scematics well (years as an automotive tech), I have to pull up all the track again, as I have several of the sidings and lines too close together (DOH!!) But figuring out how to isloate them is getting terribly confusing. I did find I has to bring it down to 3 main lines if I wanted sidings, even with that, i am still having space issues. this was easier with HO, as I used flex track.
Thanks again fellas for all the great advice… its been really helpful. I am guessing this will be a bit easier once I have the Z transformer. I have 3 whistle/direction controls a 65, a 66, and a 67, I am currently using the 67 on the type A transformer.
A single-pole-single-throw switch feeding an isolated center rail is all you need to shut off a siding.
Be sure your wiring is heavy enough for your transformer’s circuit-breaker rating, which is 15 amperes for the Z and requires 14 AWG minimum.
Don’t plan to run between blocks powered by different transformer outputs, especially if those outputs come from the same transformer, like the Z. It is a good idea to install external circuit breakers in series with those outputs just in case you accidentally do connect them together.
I don’t know of a wiring book that I would recommend; but I do recommend that you not get Peter Riddle’s. He may be a good music teacher, but he knows next to nothing about electricity.
Igy, it sounds like maybe you are trying to do too much too soon, especially if three-rail Lionel is new to you. Seriously, it isn’t that much harder than HO, other than with HO you have the positive and negative current to the track in two rails. There are some advantages to the 2 rail negative and single rail positive set-up of three rail track: reverse loops are an obvious big one.
I don’t know how big your overall space is, but 3 main lines might be a bit much to start. Try setting up an initial track plan without screwing down any of the track, run some trains and see how you like it. To experiment with insultated blocks, place the plastic insultated pin between two sections of track on the center rail. Then place a track lockon on each section on opposite sides of the insultate pin, then using a wire with alligator clips, you can turn on and off the power to a section of track and see how that works for you.
If you don’t have enough lockons, then wedge a short wire under the insultated cardstock piece of the center rail and then connect that like mentioned above.
You can also cut through the rails using a Dremel and a cutting wheel just as one would with HO track. But I would recommend this as a last resort after the track is laid out, ballasted and it’s too much work to do anything else. If you cut a rail and then realize a mistake, you’ll need to solder a feeder wire to compensate for the cut.
Another really terrific website that many here recommend is this one:
There’s a world of information here, with track/layout plans galore. If your layout is big, still look at some of the smaller layout plans as you may get some ideas and spacing suggestions. Some of the smaller layout plans have 3D illustrations which are very n
I had 4 seperate lines running originally, I brought it down to 3. Circuit breakers? I have figured out how to make the blocks work OK with one loop, and sidings on that, but I want to link one of the outer loops to the inner one, It definitly does not work using 2 seperate transformers, which is why I bought the Z. I have the money right now to pick up a second hand ZW, as they seem to be available for 125-150 bux on Ebay. Would I be better off buying a ZW? Or will it make little difference? I definitly want to keep the 3 lines as I just love the sight off all those trains moving around at one. The outer loop is 072, with only one sideing, so it should be reasonably easy.
One other question…I have a few spots where the track is connecting to the switch, and the rail is a little raised on the switch, causing a spark, which confuses the e-unit, and the loco then stop… I have not been able to figure out an easy way to get the track to be flush… It just won’t lay down!!
Don’t plan to run between blocks powered by different transformer outputs, especially if those outputs come from the same transformer, like the Z. It is a good idea to install external circuit breakers in series with those outputs just in case you accidentally do connect them together.
So if I have a transformer like the Z or ZW, there is no way for me to be able to move trains between the lines? I have to keep the linee seperate? This is not an issue with the 072 loop, as it is seperate, and has only one siding boroken in to 2 blocks, and I will be using the same circuit for all. The 054 loop has a siding also broken in to 2 blocks, plus another siding Then I have the 031 loop, broken in to 3 sections… I have switches on the way to connect the 054 to the 031, so I can move trains and rolling stock back and forth between the 2… I hope this is making sense… this worked on my HO layouts… I am planning to completly isolate the 054 from the 031 by insulating all three rails… keeping it as a completly seperate circuit… I have the table broken in to 3 circuits, only 2 of them would be connected by switches… but isolated. Also, I have never seen these cicuit breakers… Can someone recomend a wiring book?
I was seriously considering picking up this 250watt ZW on ebay at the moment, maybe the 275… should I not bother? I just figured I would resell the Z
Help me!! LOL… this is making me crazy (not that it woould take much)
