Now that I told Jim I don’t have much time to spend here, here I am again. My puter is unavailable for work, but is available for fun. Smart puter!
Watched several times these last few weeks. Watched the different ways trains are stopped and started. And they have been stopping a lot lately, right in front of me.
Some trains ease to a stop and never make a sound. They start up the same way. But…other trains will come into the throat of the yard at what looks to be a fairly good pace and suddenly - they do practically stop on a dime and the noise is horrible…Start up isn’t any better. I can’t imagine anyone that works for the railroad thinks this acceptable use of the equipment. So far nothing has broken that I know of, but just seems to be hard on body parts (knuckles and ears!)
Is this possibly a new engineer or just possibly a bad one. Someone who doesn’t really care - just get it from point A to point B and if you make a lot of noise, so what?
So talk to me about attitude or is it attitude? Is it incompetence or a natural phenom?
It could be a lot of things. For example, even though an 130 car loaded unit coal train is huge and heavy , if properly handled it can move uniformly almost gracefully. The coal hoppers are alike and weight almost the same amount so when the brakes are applied the amount of slack action in the train is relatively small. Thus, there is usually less noise. Also, the coal loads tend to muffle the noise.
Compare that to a mixed freight train of the same 130 cars. There are 20 loads of grain at the head end followed by 50 empties followed by 15 loaded propane tanks (that slosh like the devil) and 10 loaded centerbeams of lumber and five more empties. Many of these cars are of different lengths, weights and brake valve types. Apply the brakes on this train and there’ll be all sorts of slack banging around for a few minutes (yes, minutes, not seconds) by the time you get 'em stopped.
Also, as you mention the engineer could be having a bad day or he could be trying to get the train stopped at a certain spot and need to give them a bit more of an application faster to get the train stopped. On stopping I always go to full service to make sure not only that the train stops, but that it stays put and then we can start tieing handbrakes (me on the locos and the conductor on cars where required by the rules). If it’s a step on step off with the new crew it isn’t as much of an issue, but I always do what is necessary to keep it safe…
Being quiet is not really something an engineer is concerned with. The slack and noise a train makes when stopping is a function of its speed, what type of train it is, what type of move is being made, what type of cars it has, how they are loaded, what type of brake shoes are being used and how the train is being handled.
A train of empty covered hoppers with a little slack can be heard miles away. A loaded DP coal train can be pretty quiet.
Well, as an explanation - the noisy one was an mt coal train - all aluminum cars - and he literally did stop on a dime. They were moving right along and all of a sudden, they were stopped. The loaded coal trains came out of the yard and slowed to a stop and nary a whisper.
An SW10 pulling a long line of freight cars to be shoved back and humped - pulled them out of the yard, stopped and then shoved them back into the yard - w/o so much as a twitch.
So maybe it was the empties that were the problem. It just seems to be something that may be a tad hard on the cars.
Sis, remember that train that sounded off repeatedly when we were at the crossing? Empty coal gons again…nothing to deaden the noise, and a nice hollow box to serve as an amplifier. Also, the further away you are from the locomotives, the harsher the slack action will appear (and sound). That’s why the unions, who fought so hard to prevent elimination of cabooses, were pretty quiet after it actually happened…those things were a big cause of injuries, and slack action was the main culprit!
Yeah, I remember at this was just about that noisy. But…can a careful engineer keep even an empty coal train from sounding like a war battle? I guess I am looking for are there engineers who can finesse a train when stopping it and others that just never quite get the hang of it?
There are some great and not so great Engineers out there. Whether even the greatest can stop some trains without noise, well I doubt it, but maybe. I was always taught that the measure of a great engineer was the ability to stop a train without spilling any soup in the diner. I know of a couple guys like that, but not many. Many more like to bang the cars around a bit. Some will tell you if you don’t “get 'em rolling you’ll never make a joint” or something similar. Also, a lot of the newer electronic, computer assisted air brake garbage (KNORR and the like) on the newer locos are a real pain when switching tending to give more braking power than the older control stands…thus more noise…
There are engineers and there are ENGINEERS. Like in any other form of human endeavor some individuals are much better at performing specific tasks than others.
Some engineers are sooth and efficient, gettig their 170 car trains over the road at track speed with next to no mechanical problems…Others have trouble moving 10 cars without braking knuckles, yanking out drawbars and other train handling problems. Some eventually learn to become good engineers…some never do!
alot has to do with how the engineers is bringing his train to a stop…strech braking with the air…will keep the slack out on the cars…and bring it do a nice uniform stop… the same thing when you starting out… all the slack is streched so when the engins start pulling… no slack action…now if you stop bunched up…such as useing DB to slow down… the slack will come in and as it comes in…you will hear slaming sounds…and once you stop… and then start agin…the engins will pull the slack out…and you get more banging noises… but the one way to get alot of noise and one hell of a push on the engin is to start to stop streched…and at the last few seconds …put some engin brake on…you are changing the slack around in…and as your head end slows down…or even stops…the rest of the trian behind you comes in…and kicks you in your ***… your coffiee ends up all over the windsheild…your paper work its the floor…and the conductor reaches for the air hose hammer to beat you over the head with…becouse you woke him up by smashing him agins the door…or desk…depending if your on a wide body loco or not…
csx engineer
As csx engineer said it has to do with braking and if you are stretch braking the slack still comes out at some point usually before the cut reached you. ( or train) yes you can be very easy with a train and make very little noise but not everything is cut and dry. there is times, even great and easy engineers will be rough with a train. but remeber one thing we are not working with eggs here and sometimes we must just get the job done and go home. slam bang. and for the guys who say some engineers never made noise or always was smooth. I want to be on that engine when he kicks cars for switching.
OK - I am convinced. I will just brace myself when they make all that noise and until a coal car actually starts moving in another direction than it should, I will grit my teeth and try to think train control and not damage. I think.
CSX and other engineers can correct me but I believe there are circumstances when it may be necessary to use slack to get a train moving, for example starting a long heavy train out of a hole.
i have some first hand experince with the slack running in…lol…when i was trainning to be an engineer…i was stopping useing the streckbrake meothod for a helper to attach to the rear end…well…as we where slowing down…i was doing fine… but when we got to about 3 or 4 mph…i started putting on the engin brakes… about 10 seconds later… 9000 tons of train slamed into our head end… we where in a wide body loco…and the engineer that was my instructor was standing up…with his hands on the controll desk…and the conductors desk… when the train ran in… he was throw almost into the windshield…and stuff flew all over the cab…
he
yea…sometimes you ahve to take slack to get a train moving… if you got a heavy train and the power sucks… you sometimes have to back up…bunch all the slack up… once the HTD tells you the EOT is moving…you stop…and start pulling in the other direction… the theroy behind it is… insted of trying to start the train all at once…your getting the train rolling 1 car at a time… and mometom takes over… sometimes it might take 1 or 2 times of taking slack to get the train all moving… but i know a story of an engineer that had to take slack countless times to get over a hill…took him about 2 hours to go 2 tenths of a mile to get the train started over the hill… but the only way he could do it was to keep taking slack…ther was no place to double the hill…or a helper avaliable
Before the UP SP merger I worked at Rail Bearing Service in North Little Rock. Everyday an SP train came into the UP yard leaving and picking up cars. The engineer was an older looking, white haired man. He most always had the same one of two engines with the lead loco an older GE (needing some touch up on the paint). Even if I could not see his train I alway knew when he came by our shop. He made enough noise to wake the dead, and he did it EVERYDAY. Many times he would wait for a signal right behind our shop and when he stopped/started you would think WWIII also just started. [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]