I have a few maintenance of way questions, and maybe some other posters have more?
I saw a section of track on the Dakota & Iowa Railroad that had some odd ballasting. In addition to the regular ballast of crushed Sioux Quartzite, approximately ping pong ball sized, it looked like the MOW crew had a fair amount of larger rock. It was fist sized, crushed quartzite, spread out on the slight embankment between the rails and the farmer’s field. Why the bigger rock?
I saw a temporary sign along a rail line that said "Now entering T.O.C. Zone. T.O.C.?
Who cleans up the piles of broken ties that seem to languish for months to years next to some lines? What do they do with them?
Several years ago, a section of the old Milwaukee Road line on the Dakota & Iowa Railroad had the rails pulled up and the traffic moved over to the parallel BNSF track. Judging from a cut where some excavation was done, there is a good bed of Sioux Quartzite ballast under where the rails were removed. Now, it provides a good bedding for weeds. Wouldn’t it be easy to harvest this ballast, and cheaper than starting back at the quarry?
Hi, Murphy - Starting with the one I know best, and leaving the rest to others or later (my 1st attempt at this an hour ago disappeared into a “Page Not Found” kind of error . . . ):
Depends, on a lot of things - mainly logistics, quality standards (specifications), and economics. I’ve done that, and sometimes it works really well (i.e., from bypasses at new grade-separation bridge construction sites), and other times it seemed as if the gods are conspired against it. Mechancially, it’s not too hard to get it up and on a dump truck (make sure you have spares for the rubber-tired equipment though - it’ll get flats for sure from the left-over spikes and misc. metal). But then what to do with it ?
The biggest obstacle is how far it has to travel - too far, and new from the quarry makes more sense. Railroads are mostly set up for ballast from quarries in hopper cars to distribute for miles, not from dump trucks or loading into hoppers from dump trucks - except for MOW hi-rails and “spot” projects such as grade crossings and turnout installations, and how far is it to the nearest one of these ? A lot of hauling and handling is required, and inevitably some dirt, vegetation, old tie scraps, metal, etc. will also get mixed in. It won’t have a certificate of quality coming along with it, and if the specs at the reuse site are too tough, it won’t be accepted there. It may have to be screened to get rid of the “fines” - and, if someone is being paid by the ton, it’ll have to be get to a truck scale to be weighed. If the stone is that old, it probably does not conform to current “gradations” of stone. Railroad gradations are significantly different - usually larger, and less fines - than highway stone, so it couldn’t be used there (gradation is a whole 'nother topic). Most specs for new projects require “new” stone. That said, if either there’s someone prac
The larger sized rock is used to slow erosion on the enbankment, it’s more of a fill or “rip-rap” type use.
Old ties are either left to rot or cleaned up depending on: financial condition of the RR, where the “pile” is located, public image the RR wants to project, condition of the ties, etc. Old ties, depending on condition, can be sold as “relay” ties for lower quality track, or as landscape timbers to home and garden centers.
Usually the railroad will send out a scrap train with a crane or possibly a few Herzog “car topper” backhoes equipped with magnets to collect-up the metal scrap and claws for the ties. In the case of the latter, I believe the railroad contracts with the Herzog folks - they operate the backhoes while the railroad operates the train as I understand it. I know the BNSF has a scrap train with a crane car that I’ve seen operating over their Hinckley Sub before that had a magnet. They’d sometimes park it on the passing sidings in Bethel, Isanti or Cambridge.
If you Google “car topper” you may find the promotional video showing the backhoes in operation collec
3: I suppose leaving the ties to rot is, or has been, an option, but with creosote being considered a carcinogen it’s not very advisable. Disposal of the old ties was very much a part of the process the last time I saw a double tie gang at work in this area–backhoes were loading them into high-side gons or onto flat cars even before the new ties were installed. Conjecturing from what I later saw, the ties were then unloaded into a large pile, and (possibly) sorted for reuse, sale, or disposition.
Back in CNW days, I know that the old ties were left out there for a while, and at least one citizen attempted to relieve the company of the need to dispose of them (local cops put a stop to that!).
I don’t believe that they can go to just any old dumping ground–disposal places presumably have to have the ability to handle such lethal garbage.
As for the title, if French pot is pronounced “Poe”, I think “potpourri” is the word you’re after, Norris (my spell-check likes it, anyway).
Throwing something into the pot, uh, kettle… Last year, I was able to see the WSOR getting large piles of ties ground up and hauled out by truck. Never did get the final destination-perhaps a suitable landfill operation-but when the discussion came up on an old thread someone thought they could have gone to a power generation facility somewhere over on the Mississippi that burns all sorts of junk.
You’d have to guess that type of facility would have some heavy duty air polution control in place.
When the NS tie gang went through here on the Lehigh / Reading Line about this time last year, the tie handler that picked up the removed ties had 2 on-rail carts or buggies with side stakes, 1 fore and 1 aft. He stacked the old ties on one buggy until it was full, then went to fill the other. While he was filling the 2nd one, a laborer banded the ties in the 1st one with steel banding straps. As soon as that was done, the tie crane would tip the top deck of the cart to dump the ties as a bundle along the R-O-W. They were gone later, so they were picked up, but I don’t know by who or how, or where they went.
Standards and practices on this kind of thing have evolved over the past 30 years, since the CERCLA “Superfund” Act, the RCRA hazardous material “cradle-to-grave” tracking systems, and other environmental laws. As Carl says, leaving the old ties along the R-O-W was the most common practive for an active rail line, unless there was no room, or a nice area alongside that would lead to complaints. Most track removals back then - in this area, usually by ConRail or the “estates” of one of the predecessor bankrupt railroads, such as the Lehigh Valley - were also done with “selective tie removal” to maximize the value to the seller, which is to take those ties that are worthwhile, and leave the others. No one complained about that back then, and today some prospective rail-trails will find a lot of old ties in the track bed, as well as along the R-O-W embankments and such. More recently, the track owners are requiring 100% tie removal and legal disposal, which with the recent high prices for the rails as either scrap or relay rail, still leave a considerable amount of $ proceeds from the sale even after the tie disposal costs are deducted.
I never had a problem disposing of old ties via a trash container - other than trying to load them as dense as possible so as to
Speaking locally, I have seen the CN bring in a large tie grinder 3 or 4 times in the last year. The old ties are assembeled in an area and are fed into the hopper of this machine. What’s left is a product approximating mulch. I asked a worker who was a bit off site once what they did with this material and he replied that municipalities tended to buy it.
I have seen CN using bulldozers and front-end loaders to remove ballast (and some sub-grade?) material from areas where they have removed the trackage. I know some ballast from the old SOO line grade in Oshkosh was used to backfill in the Neenah Yard.
It’s for Midwest Tie Sales, which seems to sell those ties that are suitable for landscaping, reuse, etc. As for the scrap ties, there’s a link to National Salvage and Service Corporation’s webpage, which says this:
“Ties that cannot be reused are sold as fuel. The railroad’s liability ends when ties are disposed of through total destruction. Unlike landfilling which increases your expense, selling ties that cannot be reused but can be converted into fuel helps reduce the overall cost of tie disposal. To minimize transportation costs, National Salvage has established a network of co-generation facilities from Maine to California.”
They did that also on the former GN’s Mora - Brook Park, MN line a few years ago when the St. Croix Valley abandoned it, and now it’s an ATV/snowmobile trail. They hauled-off the majority of the ballast, but there is still a fair amount of signage left behind, with tie plates, tie shards, anchors and spikes tossed-around. I know the ballast rock and some of the rail went to re-use on other parts of the company ROW (not just the SCXY but the other short-line owned by the parent company).
The scrappers who got the contract from the SOO did a much more thorough job on the SOO’s ROW from Moose Lake down to Brooten. I hiked a part of that line last summer and I found very little ballast rock left, and only one tie plate after hiking almost all day. They went over it with a fine-tooth comb it seemed.
That grinder must be a tough machine - if there’s a spike left inside that wood or other metal scraps I wouldn’t wanna be too close to the contraption!
That is a scary thing. Seems there weren’t any folks around when it was running. I think I have pics of one of them and I’ll see if I can post that if anyone wants to see it.
Looks like about 4 panel-lengths in the photo - each about 5 or 6 feet long, so 20 to 24 feet or so altogether. Each such length consists of a center or “gage” side piece (“3400 Lb”), and 2 outside or “field” side pieces ("1800 Lb). Note how they’re stacked in panel-length groups, with 2 field side pieces on top of a gage piece. Also, note how the bottom corners are beveled to provide space for the tie plate and fasteners (spikes or Pandrol clips, etc.) - the gage pieces are the ones with 2 bevels, the field pieces have only 1. Note also the rubber sealing strips on the sides that will fit against the web of the rail, but under the rail head. Again, those on the gage pieces are wider for the flangeway than those on the field side pieces. Interestingly, they’re also stencilled for 136# rail, so it’s either a main track, or someone did the smart thing and upgraded the rail as much as possible (almost - could have used 141 RE instead) through the crossing.
They’re surplus or left-overs ? The project was completed with others like these, or were none of these used at all ?
Wonder who owns them ? If a government - township, county, or state - bought them specifically for this crossing project, then they may not know what else to do with them, and are leaving them here for spares in the event of damage, repairs, replacement, etc. Or, maybe they were just forgot ? [%-)]
The panels are the left overs, although there are not now as many as in the picture. The line is BNSF between Sioux City, Mitchell and Aberdeen, which was converted to 136# CWR (perhaps) 8 years ago. The crossing that was redone two years ago undoubtedly is newer than the rail line, and it is a city street. Crossing lights were installed for the first time at this location concurrent with the street work. Although BNSF equipment was present and (I assume) BNSF personnel worked on the project, I suspect the panels might belong to the City.
On the other side of the right of way there is one length, presumably a quarter mile long, of CWR.
