Well there you go, all the truly useful DCS features (broadcasting your voice and ‘clicky clack’ are NOT, IMO) are all available in QSI and Soundtraxx under DCC. Bottom line, even if MTH comes out with a Reading T-1 before BLI ro someone else, I am NOT going to change my whole control system just for one locomotive, and if I cna only use a tiny fraction of the capabilities, and it looks like there are very useful ones you can’t access under DCC, then I see no point in buying the loco.
I’m looking at this not as a “boycott MTH” issue but as a “there’s absolutely no reason to buy this product” issue.
Yes Randy, that is a much more realistic way of looking at this whole situation. Forget all of the deep philosophical nonsense about patents and lawsuits. Just look at the product from the perspective of “is this what I want to spend my money on?” Do I want or need all of those features?
The patent and lawsuit issues are still deeply troubleing, but they aren’t going to be what makes or breaks MTH’s venture into HO. Bottom line, do consumers want this product?
If I were to switch to HO tomorrow, I would still build my railroad the same way. I would still have it operate the same way. I don’t own or run any steam engines. These are the features that would interest me.
Below are the features you will have access to when using a DCC controller:
Operate Locomotive At Scale Speeds
Activate Whistle/Horn or Bell Sounds
Hear Squeaking Brakes
Enjoy Synchronized Puffing Smoke Timed To Driver Revolutions
Activate Passenger Station or Freight Yard Sound Effects
Activate Doppler Sound Effects
Control Smoke Operation
Control Locomotive Master Volume
Adjust The Locomotive Chuff Rate
Next, are the features you will have access to when using a DCS system:
22 Independent Volume Control Settings
16 Adjustable Chuff Rate Settings
3 Adjustable Smoke Intensity Settings
Adjustable Brake Sound Effects
Adjustable Wheel “Clickity-Clack” Sounds
15 Selectable Custom Sounds
4 Adjustable Diesel Engine Ditch Lighting Effects
120 Adjustable Engine Speed Settings
3 Adjustable Locomotive Direction Start-up Engines
Wow! I sure don’t need all those extra features, even in DCC. To me the simpler it is, the fewer the headaches.
However, at low volume, I really enjoy the sound of a diesel locomotive’s horn. As a teen in Tampa, I lived about 1 mile from the tracks. Often while doing homework in my bedroom, I would regularly hear train horns and immedietly knew if it was an Amtrak SDP40f (the SL4T horn was unique), an SCL U-Boat or an SCL yard switcher.
For me the horn is one feature that brings back many fond memories.
Oh, you are wrong there–
If you buy from a company that has been defending itself in such a case, you paid their lawyers… and that’s not something you can choose to avoid as easily as boycotting the plaintiff.
As far as the final award, likely to be reduced… but in the mean time, creditors avoid further exposure to the defendants.
Those ‘huge’ awards are similar to medical malpractice awards… often reduced, but a burden on the defendent in the mean time… and as far as insurace goes (business OR malpractice) has anyone noticed the Ins. Companies are arbiters of First resort? (…they pay to settle rather than beat back the unjustified plaintiffs- just because it’s cheaper… for Them.) Then they raise the rates to cover their exposure.
The lawyers ain’t pretty, either, but they do mitigate predatory and reckless activities.
I haven’t bought ANY new trains from either manufacturer in over 4 years. I don’t own any steam engines, and have no plans to buy any. The trains I have been buying were picked up at shows or on eBay, and most were not current production at the time. It has been even longer since I last placed an order with a dealer for new trains, and I have no plans to change my buying habits.
What a swell group to be associated with. In other words, Sell the “junk” that your fellow TCA members passed on the day before to the unsuspecting public. Makes one wonder how many of those unsuspecting, and most likely in a few days, unhappy public newcomers were turned off to this hobby.
This sort of thing happens in every walk of life and in every form of business, however, it doesn’t make the newbie feel any better when they find this out the hard way. I’m sure you didn’t mean it to come out the way it did, at lest I’d hope not.
You make it sound as if the members were trying to rip off the public. That simply was not the case. It was no different from any non TCA event held anywhere in the country.
The quality and the prices of the trains didn’t change from one day to the next. Nor did the integrity of the members. The only thing that really changed was the faces in the crowd.
Here in the Twin Cities the TCA is almost non existant. I quit going years ago, when the same 40 guys kept bringing the same stuff month in and month out, and I didn’t want to buy any of it. The local public meets are sponsored by an HO club, a 2 rail O club, and a private individual with no club affiliation. There are NO rules as to what can be sold, and it’s buyer beware.
Elliot, I only made it sound that way as that is the way it sounded to me.
The statement, “less desirable” to me meant that while on Saturday, they were available to other TCA members, those members knew they were not worth what was being asked for the piece. Yet on Sunday, they found unsuspecting souls to pawn the stuff off on.
Like I said, I’m sure you didn’t mean it to sound that way, but to me it did.
Rod, that was 20 years ago, but I think the show is still going on. It was a bit of a running joke as in how many Sunoco tank cars, Lionel Lines cabooses and track do collectors need. But, there were a lot of quality pieces beyond those commons, available at the show.
There was plenty of excellent postwar and mint MPC. Actually, more money changed hands when the public was there. While it is true that some of the most choice pieces changed hands Saturday. There was a lot more activity on Sunday.
A lot of the people were buying cars and accessories to add to existing sets. Since they weren’t collectors nicks and scratches weren’t as important to them, as long as the trains worked. Collector grade vs running grade is more what I meant when I said “less desirable”.
Antonio, check over on the CTT forum. There is some news about MTH and QSI. Something about a case being dismissed, but I think that was a countersuit. The main case is being heard out west, but they were waiting for the conclusion of the Lionel case. It sounds like the verdict on that one will stand, and Lionel’s options are appeal, pay, or bankruptcy (not fatal, reorganization).
Sorry about the Challengers and Verandas, I think Lionel is back out of the HO business for the foruth time in their history. MTH may meet with the same results here. My advice to both companies is to stick to what they know best, and forget HO. Everyone will be a lot happier.
I’ve followed this thread with much interest. My only direct experience outside of HO scale is a Bachmann G scale that I put around the Christmas tree once a year. Nonetheless, I go to a variety of shows (my son likes the Greenberg shows, for example), read the model press, and hang around my LHS (although I wish it were more local). My impression from these inputs is that we in North American HO are fortunate to have mostly been spared the intense sparring and almost politicization that appears to be an ongoing part of the O Scale world.
MTH wants to enter the HO market in order to expand their revenues. Gentlemen at MTH (and like other posters, I applaud your responses whether I agree with them or not), I think you will need to modify your behavior in order to even have a fair chance of succeeding in the HO North American market. Rightly or wrongly, fairly or unfairly, we have come to expect different standards of behavior from our mainstream suppliers.
O scalers: the “flavor” of your marketplace is very off-putting for the typical experienced HO scaler who might be considering switching scales or adding an O scale.
Note my references to “North American”. In Europe, things are different. The big boys in the European hobby - Marklin, Fleischmann, Roco, perhaps Hornby (I say “perhaps” given Hornby’s much smaller size, and the whole thing about OO versus HO) - have always eschewed standardization and opted to the best of their ability for proprietary featurs and systems that they hope would cause a given modeler to lock onto one company versus the others.
Finally, I think some posters are in error in assuming that MTH is some big company - even by model railroad standards. According to Hoover’s Business Research Services, to which I have a professional subscription, MTH has 12 full-time employees. They reported $800K in revenues (2003) to Hoovers. For small privately held companies, Hoover’s does not verify the revenues, but in my experience the employee numbers
Wellspring Capital Management privately reported 2003 revenues of $83M, but this does not appear to include the revenues of the operating companies it owns or controls. Nonetheless, based on othr gleanings - and bearing in mind that Lionel was on the brink of liquidation through sale at auction in October, 1995 - it is very doubtful that Lionel could pay a $40M settlement and remain in business.
I have a lot of experience running a lot of 3 rail O trains at once. 3 rail O is not nearly as quiet as HO, there is a lot of wheel and track noise. Now add the sound of about 20 engines to the space.
Sound is just not a priority for me, operation is my focus. As one who is into 3 rail O, that makes me unusual. In HO, I would expect to see a more equal split between sound and no sound preferance. The minute you get beyond simple running, and into operations, sound becomes more of a distraction. To have a couple of trains set to continuous running, sure, sound is nice.
If I had an option to not have sound, and pay less, I would. I suspect, I am not alone.
I have to admit that standing next to the tracks, and having a train speed by is pretty cool. The effect is just not the same with models.[swg]
