Ok, so I didn’t always plan ahead. That’s what comes of building a lahyout in increments as one moves from house to house.
Nevertheless, it is now time for me to place a few Kadee between the ties magnetic uncouplers. In a couple of spots I see no choice but to put them on a mainline section.
Is this totally totally a no-no? Or is it just that slowing or pausing on the spot can cause unwanted uncouplings and then have to recouple? If that is the case, then the trade off between having a few unwanted uncoupling when a train slows or pauses is ok if I can actually get uncoupling when needed in that spot no other way.
If every train passing over the uncoupler on the mainline is going to have trouble, then the trade off is not worth it.
Below is a siding off what use to be a B&O main lline now CSX. If you can have a siding off the main there is nothing wrong with a magnet imo.
The Siding goes to South Eastern Container Corp maker of 2 liter Coke bottles. This is an industry that started off with trucks hauling in the plastic pellets but grew to where they did away with the trucks and put in the RR siding. Chalk one up for the RR.
If CSX can do it so can the Coso Kid. Besides it’s your RR
As for the unwanted uncoupling I’d use delayed action magnetic uncouplers. Put one in place with a little white glue and give it a try. It works for me.
I have a few Kadee electromagnet uncouplers on my main lines. They work, but they cost a lot more than a simple permanent magnet, and you are pretty much forced to buy a hefty power supply for them, too.
Another option is to mount a permanent magnet on a lever or other mechanical contraption and only raise it up when you want to uncouple.
From the permanent magnets I’ve got in my yard, I would not put one on a main line. Keeping cars coupled as moving trains cross them can be a problem at times, so your concern about unwanted uncoupling on the mains is well founded.
If the locos always keep the train in tension, putting a Kadee magnet between the ties isn’t the problem some have made it out to be. A caboose (or working FRED) with wheel wipers can assist in this.
The key is, no slack unless you WANT to uncouple.
Since I WAS able to plan ahead, I have live uncouplers on my main/through tracks. Installing them after the fact calls for lifting the track and excavating through the roadbed - not always possible.
(I also have fixed magnets in places where every coupler that crosses them is slack - but the cut is being pushed, not pulled.)
We have a delayed action coupler on one of the mainlines. Sometimes we get break aparts, depending on speed and how easy the cars are rolling. But it’s not often and is less likely with real Kadee uncouplers which have a fairly decent lip to keep the couplers together.
I have a few rare earth magnets under the main. As was noted, if the train is in tension you will not get unwanted uncoupling. I have had perhaps three incidents in over five years of running 25 car trains. At least two of them were from adjustments to the throttle at the wrong instant. Not a bad record. You don’t need to worry too much (only a little).
Another reason not to use the “surface- delayed” magnet on a main is that any low "trip pin/ glad hand can snag on the magnet. This isn’t any issue w/ switching speeds in a yard or siding but trains running at speed really don’t like that instant jolt. Of course coupler set properly should never even come close to hitting. Do note that the Kadee magnet thickness is still set for code 100 when placed on the ties. Actual placement means slight notching of the ties for most of us using code 83.
One of the old timers from my club always had great suggestions. A real “old school” Model RR. He showed that when setting the glad hand height, always allow it to slightly curve upwards and file a chamfer continuing up. In the event the trip pin hits any magnet, guard rail sw and diamonds it will bounce up and over.
Magnets? What are those? I don;t have any. But my layout is a narrow shelf type, so I uncouple with skewers or (as suggested by Andy S) a pencil. Wherever I exactly need to spot a car, that’s where I uncouple it. However I still have not been able to brign myself to clip off all the ‘air hoses’. I may instead give them the paint treatment. Another thing I don;t worry about is them catchign on turnouts or anything - I bend them way up - well above where they should be for reliable magent operation per the Kadee gauge.
randy, so true. By setting the “air hose” slightly higher than recommended, will stop any problems. Always have to remember that some couplers even set @ Kadee spec can pull down under load and drag or hit a magnet. Skewers seem to do the job best.
If you plan to host operating sessions, I recommend not placing them on the mainline - use electromagnets if you must. Un-wanted uncouplings are especially frustrating in an Ops environment.
Also, Coupler trip pins must be accurately adjusted to make the magnets work right. Keeping the trip pins set correctly on a large fleet of rolling stock usually ends up being a hassle over time.
Yes, Guy this is what I was afraid of. I have not used any of the uncoupling magnets before. But now that I have my scenery and structures in place, it is not so easy to reach across the layout anymore.
Buuuuuut, I have often bent the coupler pins up in a curve when installing them on all my rolling stock. That is, I have not set them to just clear the lip on the coupler pin gauge, but bent a bit of an arc more. Probably few if any of my couplers will work properly with a typical Kadee over the rails coupler anyway.
Most of the guys I know (including myself) use skewers. It does take some planning to avoid having operators crunch things when reaching into a scene to uncouple. In those situations I try to make the uncouple early and use the “delayed action” to push the car into position and then back up leaving the car on spot.
One local layout does have some magnets on a spur or two. In that instance a small number of dedicated hopper cars are routed to and from that spot. It is easier to keep the smaller number of hoppers adjusted rather than a larger fleet. BTW: I still have had problems with un intentional uncouplings on those spurs…probably just me…
Thanks. I just sat back and took a good look at what had planned. I will probably do just what you have described…and not put the magnets everywhere I had thought I might. I have only two spots that I think I will definitely need some, and I can dedicate well-tuned reefers and hoppers to those spurs because they are restricted to serving an icehouse and grain terminal. The backends of those strings of cars will be just too dicey to reach by leaning. Now I have to work carefully to get the spots prepared and clear of ballast without crunching something.
And I don’t really care for the look of the on-the-tie magnets that I have to use out close to the front of the layout anyway
I use rare earth magnets (1/8" diam x 3/8" long, in pairs) and came up with a method of making them removable for main line use. I haven’t tried this yet but don’t see why it wouldn’t work just like most of the other designs for hinged uncoupler magnets. This one uses steel nails in the track bed and the rare earth magnets below. I assume they would transfer the magnetic field to the nails when in contact since they are so strong. I would just use a slightly larger magnet for the removable design, maybe 3//16" dia if they would fit. I did a quick sketch of what I am thinking of. I didn’t show a mechanism to move the magnets as that is up to each setup. Any comments are appreciated.
That’s a good looking diagram and seemingly good idea.
Now, if the magnets are quite strong (strong enough to work on the trip pins through the nail heads above) how are you going to release them when the task is complete? If you have figured that out, let me know because I like the idea.
In other cases of intermittent use of magnets under the layout I notice people using a “string and loop/pulley” system to pull the magnet assembly up into place. But I think these are either electromagnets or there are no ferrous materials above or on the ties for the magnet to touch like your nailheads. Would you be able to pull the magnet away given the stretchiness of a string and loop system.
Perhaps if the nailheads themselves were fixed like pins to the magnet and moved up with the magnet head to run into holes up to the rail head height and then completely dropped away with the magnet.
Let me know how you progress. Great drawings, too.
Yup, I thinkt he biggest problem would be getting the magnets to drop, those rare earth magnets would stick to those steel nails like nothign else. Now, if the control method were a rod, with an attachmant arm sticking down slightly below the moving part, it might work, particularly if the ‘release’ direction were pulling on the rod rather than trying to push. The string method using just the wight of the magnet and moving platform wouldn;t work for this because of the attraction of the magnet to the steel. Instead of hinging, another option woulg be to make it slide back and forth like a drawer. A stiff connection liek a rod or choke cable would still be needed, string won;t cut it, unless you make it like a washline and loop it around a pully beyond the magnet slider, so that you cna pull in either direction.
Not that you need two, one next to each rail, or the Kadee and clone air hoses won;t seperate. The Kadee fixed magents are polarized downthe middle so to one side of the track is north adn the other side is south. A typical small magnet like a little round button of a rare earth magnet is north on one side and south on the other (top to bottom). So you would need two steel nails, one near one raila nd one near th eother, and two magnets on the moving platform. To make a spot uncoupler on my previous layout, I tries a pair of small button magnets, this did work but gettign the position exactly right tool a little fiddling . I ended up drilling two holes slightly overside so I could adjust the position of each magnet and secured them with caulk. They need to be offset from one another, not exactly opposite each other since the ends of joined coupler hoses is similarly offset.
How about lining the holes through the roadbed/subgrade with non-ferrous metal tubing, then raising the smaller magnets from below? A lot less obtrusive and damaging than my present under-tie movable magnets (which require a big rectangular hole under the cardstock track template.)
Sorry, been reading the old MR’s and recently read about Harry Boundarant’s traction layout where everything, even his throttles, were vacuum operated, with parts from an old player piano. Turnouts, throttle, even a lift bridge at the entrance to the layotu room - all with bellows and linkage, and electromechanical air valves.
Plus the club I used to belong to had some of that Del-Aire air equipment, the entire hump yard was all air-controlled, both the switch motors and the ‘retarders’ which were air jets that blow against the direction of travel.
Now you guys see why I didn’t go into the activation/deactivaction design! Actually, I had just thought of this idea from reading this thread and went into Corel Draw to make a quick diagram. I would use some form of solid linkage to release the magnets, maybe even using a wedge to seperate the magnets and a spring to return them. I was a mechanical designer before retiring so I am sure I could come up with something easy and reliable. If I can get some time I will post a sketch. thanks for the comments.
