I have finsihed reading all the replies.
Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts. I enjoyed all the insight and intelligence that was presented.
I was going to post this for “Filosophy Phriday”, but I forgot, and started it on Saturday. It has still been a very successful discussion.
-Kevin
I traded away a third of my layout space for a den. I had originally planned that 2/3rds of my space would be layout and the other 1/3 would be workshop and staging. My wife pointed out that I might want to have a place to sit, or even a place for her to come and spend some time with me. Seemed like a good idea.
Staging will become a lower deck instead.
Housing prices in this part of southern Ontario, and, in many cases, also for most of Canada, have gone up drastically over the last couple of years.
Older homes, not necessarily in good condition, or even ones that are rather unattractive, are subject to bidding wars, and a small house that might have cost $90,000 three or four years ago, is $400- to $600,000 now.
Part of this trend is directly related to the Covid pandemic: many folks that worked at a business or industry that employed clerical workers, kept them employed by allowing them to work “virtually”, at home.
Those working in nearby Toronto, (Canada’s largest city, where one half of an 80 year-old duplex sells for well-over a million dollars) discovered that their money will go a lot further in nearby Hamilton (my hometown), and even further in the Niagara area, where I now live.
Their ability to continue working from home (their new home) after the situation returns to normal, means no more commuting to work. I foresee a lot of empty office space languishing on the market when this is over.
As for assessment around here, I believe that it’s mostly based on square footage, although when I had the house finished enough to move in, the building inspector found two “violations”: one was an exterior door to what would eventually become a deck, but at the time, had nothing - no deck, no steps. He suggested that he would approve it if the door were sealed until the deck was in place, and I immediately blocked the door by barring it with a screwed-on 2"x4".
His other complaint was that the stairwell opening in the basement was improperly framed, and I argued with him on this point, as I knew that it was done properly (my uncle was a housebuilder, and taught me well).
I agree! My room is 19 1/3 x 9 1/2, the layout is a “convoluted oval” My “dreaded duckunder” is semi permanant across the doorway. But, it really isn’t dreaded since it clears the floor at 4’ 9", an easy duck for 6’1" me. The layout ground elevation is 4’ 10" from the floor. I am so used to it I don’t even think about it. Ample work space is under the layout.
A 10x 20 has a lot to offer. My layout has hidden staging for six 14 car trains, double headed. Five industries large enough to serve (be served by) whole length trains, or close to it. Two of those have small (250 and 300 foot) ships at dock.
Plus there’s a TT and 6 stall roundhouse and 2 stall shop, a decent size boneyard. 2 smaller industries on spurs. 2 businesses not served by rail. All businesses have ample room for vehicles where applicable.
There’s a farm on an open rolling hillside big enough to look legit, with 2 dwellings. And the rock face cliffs and hillside that are over staging dwarfs the trains that are visible. I’ve worked hard to avoid spaghetti bowl, and I think I succeeded. Most everything mentioned is WIP, but established.
One thing i’ll mention about the around-the-room layout is that observers can’t take it all in at once. Their back is always to about half the layout, so they have take in the 360 view incrementally. 10x20? Plenty of room for HO action! Dan
Life also is a lot of comprimises. Finding the proverbial middle ground is not always easy or fast. The speed that it happens with a layout also might become a surprise. The important thing is you have it. Now time to start moving forward!
My compromises somewhat punish myself depriving me of a lot of the fun unfortunately[(-D] After three years into it you would think I’d have the track laid and trains running but I don’t. I’ve had too many custom bridges to build among other things that need to get done first ideally. That stuff is very time-consuming but I really enjoy building those things so I guess I’m still having fun with the hobby.
I have lived a learning experience from my younger years on my other three layouts. Once I got the track laid most of my time was spent amusing myself running trains and never getting any of the modeling done. The reality is I never finished a single one of those layouts.
So now I’m going about things backwards and waiting until I get the bulk of the modeling projects done before I lay my track and run trains.
Yep, I know I’m a little crazy in the way I think but I always have been that way[(-D]
TF
I would never entertain reworking a house just to accomodate a model railroad. Maybe that makes me less serious about the hobby, so be it I guess. Turning a third car garage into a “finished” room would be as far as I would go in turning space that was designed for one thing into something else…structurally.
I have thought about building a separate garage with a 20 x10 train room above. Or building a house with an upstairs bonus area that I would use as a train room. The “train room in a shed” thread has given me the thought of buying an old mobile home and gutting it for use as a model train room. I would finish a basement. I would make a bedroom a train room. But I would never rework an existing structure to accomodate trains.
I think not adding the second story just for a train room was a good decision.
Throught the USA, property taxes are generally assessed by “finished” squarefootage. Permits are “required”, and inspections must be performed, because the assumption is that people “finish” a room by covering up the important stuff, and the important stuff needs looked at prior to being covered up with pretty drywall and trim.
A gray area exists where a garage or basement becomes “finished” but is not deemed to be used as “livable” space. I would assume that if the inspectors saw you add a second story that has stairs up from the house, finished room with HVAC connected to the main system, they would deem i
I can’t speak for other parts of the country, but around here property assessments are done by a stand alone state agency. But the property tax is paid to the counties. An issue of honesty and transparency.
Assessors use dollar amounts and basic descriptions of work from permit filings, but cannot come in your home or on your property without permission.
Real estate sales, and the wealth of public information that creates about the property are the single biggest driver of increased assessments here, not renovation or addition permit filings.
At the big Queen Anne house 25 years ago I built a detached 32 x 40 six car garage, with my 24 x 40 train room above in the gable of the 12/12 pitch roof.
After the inspections I added insulation, HVAC, osb walls, and beadboard ceiling to the train room. Even if the county had known about these improvements it would not have been considered living space because there was no bathroom or running water in the garage, and it was detached from the house.
I agree, I would never make unusual modifications to a house for trains or anything else. It is a resale problem in most cases.
Sheldon
Yes, what I am used to seeing is the definition of living space being the major factor in determining assessed value when it comes to things like remodels. The county records for my house show 2700 SF, which is only the above ground portion. But homeowner basement finishings are common around here, and the full finished SF living space is 3,700 SF…not in the tax records (who ever did it did a pretty good job. Drywal hung and sanded properly, access ports for upstairs kitchen sink water access, outside water spigot shut off, little touches, etc). My basement train room is a third garage stall with a garage door but that I had drywalled, but its not living space. My house is a good example of the various levels of “finished” space that the local tax records sees differently.
And no, they do not come into the house unless invited, but I believe they are allowed to walk around the yard to check for additions or even large porches or decks that might add significant value. But that might only be once every 10 years.
They do that here but I think it is seven years.